double glazing - told I have to have uneven windows

fortythree

Can anybody help me?

I have had a quote form a double glazing firm who seem very respectable, but there is one aspect of the work that I am worried about.

They have told me that due to new buildin regulations, the opening windows upstairs have to be a minimum size. This is a bit over half the size of my window frames upstairs, so I will have one window a bit bigger (about 10cm) than the other. I am worried that this will look very odd when looking at the house from the outside.

Can anyone enlighten me? Are there new building regulations in place that require this? Are my double glazing firm being over zealous in following these regulations or do my windows have to be done in this way? Has anyone else had windows installed like this? And if so were they happy with the results or did they think theyl ooked a bit odd?

Any help would be gratefully received as I would like a bit of reassureance or wanring before I spend thousands of pounds on this work.

Ladybird20

why dont u try to google the question,,,this is what i do sometimes and i always find the answer although someone on here i am sure will enlighten you

TomsMom

Building regs for England & Wales require minimum size for escape

Requirement B1- means of escape in fire

All windows to habitable rooms (but not kitchens, utility rooms, dressing rooms, bathrooms, wc's or shower rooms) at floors above ground level are required to be suitable for escape in fire. In addition, rooms at ground floor level whose only escape route is via another room must be provided with suitable escape windows.

A suitable escape window is defined as 'a window whose unobstructed openable area is at least 0.33m2 and at least 450mm high and 450mm wide (a 450mm wide opening will need to be 735mm high). The bottom of the openable area should be no more than 1100mm above the floor. Any key required to open the window should be readily available.

So no, your DG company is not being over zealous, just following the regulations. A reputable company will not do otherwise.

Have a look around your neighbourhood, see if you think any of the opening windows look "odd".

dander

Could you have windows that are faked to look like two nice even matching seperate windows, but actually open as one big window, therefore meeting building regs?

jackieb

My upstairs windows are different from my downstairs ones. There are 2 houses identical to ours next door and they have the same configuration of windows so it doesn't look odd. The upstairs ones are split into 2. The bigger 2/3rd is tilt and turn and the other 1/3rd doesn't open. Apparently, one of the reasons they do it this way is so that you can clean the outside of the non-opening window without leaning out (so no more than a normal arm length). As well as being big enough to climb out of in the event of a fire of course.

I still see non-regulation windows being fitted though. I'm pretty sure there was a disclaimer on the contract I signed for our new windows, saying that you'd been advised of the building regs but haven't gone with the advice of the double glazing firm - or words to that effect.

Oh, and in our last house we had double glazing fitted about 13 years ago - all up to regs at the time. The upstairs bedrooms had just one big opening tilt and turn window, and really it was too big for a single opening. It was really heavy.

ormus

afaik the rules are not retrospective. they only apply to new build, after the rules came into force. ive never heard of any company making anyone to increase the size of their existing windows.

TomsMom

ormus wrote: »

afaik the rules are not retrospective. they only apply to new build, after the rules came into force. ive never heard of any company making anyone to increase the size of their existing windows.

We have an old house (over 100 years old) and when we had replacement windows the DG firm had to follow the escape rules.

Sounds to me like the OP is considering replacement windows within their original sized frames/reveals and it's the opening bit that he's questioning. Perhaps he'll come back and clarify.

silvercar

According to my double glazing guy, there is a part to the regulations that states the size has to be the bit the Tomsmum quoted above or at least the size that they currently open to.

My problem was that replacing wooden frames with upvc meant the opening size was slightly smaller ('cos upvc windows have the outer frame, inner frame and opening bit). We got round the problem by having hinges that openned wider.

Another option would have been having the fixed bit that can open along with the openner. I'm not very good at explaining it, but you can get a window that will open like french doors, so the one half stays closed most of the time and the openner locks into it, but can be openned in emergency.

Fire regulations are obviously sensible for emergencies. In practice everyone now has key operated lockable windows and has to site their keys away from the windows to satisfy insurers. Years ago, the opennings may have been smaller, but at least there were no locks to prevent you openning the windows in the first place.

silvercar

From a council website:

"Means of Escape
All first floor windows to habitable rooms in dwellings should ideally have opening lights large enough to allow you to escape through them if you were trapped in the room by a fire. This also applies to rooms in bungalows, which open into a hall (unless the hall itself has an external door through which you could escape) and all inner room situation. To meet this requirement all such windows should have an unobstructed openable area of at least 0.33m2 and be not less than 450mm high and 450mm wide (the route through the window may be at an angle rather than straight through). The bottom of the openable area should be less than 1100mm above the floor.

If your existing windows do not have opening lights which meet the above requirements, we would strongly recommend for your own safety that you take the opportunity to provide them in the replacement windows. This is not, however, a requirement of the regulations, which simply state that the replacement windows must be no worse than those they replace in this respect. Where the existing windows already having opening lights which are larger than the above requirements, those in the new windows can be reduced in size provided they are not reduced to less than the escape windows size mentioned."

fortythree

Thanks for all the replies. To clarify, I am talking about replacement windows.

I do think I am being sold a pup on this one. As someone said, the replacement windows only have to be no worse than the old ones. The same company fitted windows across the road in a similar property last year, where the replacement windows are split evenly down the middle. I mentioned this to the surveyor at the time when he said we needed an uneven window split, and he asked when those were fitted. We said last year. He then said that this was a new regulation this year, but looking on the web these regulations have not been revised since 2002!

The only reason I can think for them doing this is that the 4500mm window is a standard size (due to the regulations on new windows) and that it is therefore a bit cheaper for them to order than other windows.

Thanks for everyone's help with this.

I think I will give them a call and see what they say. I will let you know how I get on.

silvercar

Whereabouts are you? Maybe it would be worth getting a quote from another form?