New Kaupthing CHAPS/BACS Transfers discussion - Friday 24th October

robborollover

Before spelling police get on to me yes did notice typing error !!

wadeall

schoey99 wrote: »

It all seems to be approaching a conclusion now!
How agonising that the last few seem to be coming through in such small batches.
I'm not sure who to consider are the real villians in all this.

I'm one of those still waiting for funds to clear. In my case a substantial amount CHAPSed into KE after ING announced it was taking it over in the 8th. (I had foolishly figured that with ING in charge KE was a good risk by then.)

I would offer odds of 5/1 that i won't get my money by today even though I am not one of the 35 that ING have claimed they will contact today. Infact I fully expect to be the last person to get my money back. - As long as I do get my money back in a reasonable time trame, I will not be too miffed.

As far as the "real victims" in all this, the answer is the UK taxpayer and in particular those cautious people who sensibly put their money in low risk UK banks and building societies who oughtto feel very miffed at being forced to bale out those of us who have been more reckless/greedy in parking our cash with what in retrospect was an accident waiting to happen. ING have , at least iin the early stages done a terrible job at communicating with their new customers and obviously were not set up and experienced to know what actions to take in this type of emergency takeover. On the other hand (whilst I reserve the right to be very angry if i dontactually get my money back), they have sorted out things for most people alot quicker than were KE to have joined Icesave with the FSCS.

miserable_ol_so_n_so

wadeall wrote: »

....

As far as the "real victims" in all this, the answer is the UK taxpayer and in particular those cautious people who sensibly put their money in low risk UK banks and building societies who oughtto feel very miffed at being forced to bale out those of us who have been more reckless/greedy in parking our cash with what in retrospect was an accident waiting to happen.............edited out..........

How were we to know that these banks were high risk?......They were being regulated by governments.........in Iceland......and by the FSA here surely. Besides, which bank is safe?.....Was Lehaman Bros an unsafe organisation?........What about Bradford and Bingley?........Alliance and Leicester......Northern Rock.....Wachovia.....We have to rely on the regulators to do their job.....and so long as there is a guarantee of deposits.......I see no reason not to obtain the highest possible return. It is upto the regualtors to withdraw the guarantee from risky banks or warn customers that their deposits are not safe.

2little2late

robborollover wrote: »

Morning all,

Good luck again, to all the weary have nots hope todays your day.

I tried to transfer by bacs the remaining money out of my KE ACCOUNT yesterday and like some of you said including Zaphod, although I got a ref no it did NOT go from my account.

Phoned KE said to do it again........ same thing today....... phoned again just now,KE/ING have no knowledge of withdrawls not leaving accounts.!!

Asked for someone to ring me KE said may not be today !!! didnt think it could get any worse but it has !!!

Still hopeing for you guys out their tho .

i did the same Robbo and also noticed that the money hadn't left, but on just checking find it now has, suggest you have another look see.

robborollover

i did the same Robbo and also noticed that the money hadn't left, but on just checking find it now has, suggest you have another look see.


Thanks 2LITTLE2LATE, just looked and you are right mine has to
As usual have to rely on this thread, as no phone call from KE/ING,but maybe my post saying its got worse helped.

Still hoping for good news for the waiting souls.,

wadeall

miserable_ol_so_n_so wrote: »

How were we to know that these banks were high risk?......They were being regulated by governments.........in Iceland......and by the FSA here surely. Besides, which bank is safe?.....Was Lehaman Bros an unsafe organisation?........What about Bradford and Bingley?........Alliance and Leicester......Northern Rock.....Wachovia.....We have to rely on the regulators to do their job.....and so long as there is a guarantee of deposits.......I see no reason not to obtain the highest possible return. It is upto the regualtors to withdraw the guarantee from risky banks or warn customers that their deposits are not safe.

I think there is a big distinction between the likes of NR and BB and Kaupthing. It's not realistic to expect average consumers to monitor the business decisions of NR and BB or to realise the danger of their reliance on wholesale funding. For the average consumer there was little to distinguish BB/NR from say the Nationwide or Lloyds. In these cases I think it is entirely justifiable for someone to say they re reliant on the regulator.

Clearly the regulator was at grave fault with KE/Icesave. They were being paid to keep the system safe and should have thought through the scenarios that have developed. I think the confusion between FSCS and the Icelandic compensation scheme was not well explained and we can again blame the regulatory authorities for this. From most punters' perspective GBP35k was guaranteed and that was an end to it. Although sites like MSE did explain some elements of the passport scheme, it was too much "in the fine print".

However this is all a bit like deciding to have a bonfire in your living room and saying: " don't worry, I have fire insurance" - or more precisely "don't worry, my neighbours will pay up if things go wrong."

Let's look at KE's business model (which is pretty much the same as Icesave, ICICI, First Save etc).

You set up a pretty web site, costing maybe GBP1m, rent a office and couple of hundred people in Northampton or somewhere. You then get a UK banking licence and sign up to the deposit protection scheme. Then you set your rates 0.25% higher than the competition. You then rely on the Best Buy/Price Comparison sites such as MSE to bring in the hot money. A year later you have GBP2bn of deposits which you then lend to your buddies in Iceland to speculate buying up high street chain stores at bubble prices. The Bubble bursts, people become nervous that the people you lent to are going to default, so there is a run on the bank, you go bust, at fire sale prices your assets are worth a fraction of your liabilities, The Icelandic guarantee is worth zip, because Iceland has the same population size as Coventry, so poor od UK tax payer is left picking up the bill.

Clearly the regulators are culpable for giving them a licence in the first place and then not realising what was going on earlier.

Price comparison sites such as Martin's were also culpable. Martin (and similar sites) was being used by KE as an (unpaid, one presumes) marketing department. My guess would be that the MSE site was responsible for generating at least 10% of KE's deposits. - perhaps more importantly, had Martin thought through and publicised the dangers, the story would have been picked up and it would have halved KE's deposits.

In my view Martin made several critical errors, Firstly he didn't appreciate how shaky KE's business model was - this is forgiveable as those people such as the Credit rating Agencies who were paid to do so, also didn't realise this. Secondly he didn't think through how worthless Iceland's guarantee would be given their tiny population base, thirdly he didn't pick up on any of the danger signals being flashed about the Icelandic banks for the last 6 months or so. Fourthly he approached the whole matter from the selfish perspective of the individual punter wanting to generate the highest interest rates, without any regard to the bill the taxpayer would have to pick up if the thing blew up.

I think it's always easier to blame other people than to accept one's own partial blame, but I don't think the buck stops at Martin. Martin in many ways was only responding to the selfish and greedy attitude of his readership - yes our good selves. It's not really good enough to say that "none could have foreseen this." I and I am sure you all have many many cautious friends who would have said "Kaupthing Edge - sounds well dodgy to me - where do they come from - Iceland, I'm not putting my money in the hands of some tinpot fishermen. " Some times such caution is a mistake, but in this case, we need to admit that the sceptics were spot on.

MSE_Martin

Hi,

So how we doing this morning. How many people are now left.

Martin

PS On the point above. Wadell's the arguments you've put above, are interestign but based on a large factual error.

Kaupthing was a fully UK regulated UK bank just as much as HSBC, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax and the rest (Icesave was different, but that's another story). The Icelandic compensation system had nothing to do with it.

It was fully protected and regulated by the FSCS, no money was due from Iceland, and the full £50k protection applies, its also the reason that Kaupthing was able to be moved rather than closed (though in iceland, this moving the funds was blamed for the eventual collapse of Kaupthing which was operating at the time).

I have always been clear about focusing on the protection levels; as thats the key.

Yet please can we NOT continue the discussion here. This is about getting people their chaps payments back. There are other threads on this site for discussion such issues.

Martin

northernstar5

It's in the low 30s at the last count Martin. Still at least 30 too many!

Madre_Maquina

Just checked again. Am seriously paranoid now:eek: Can't believe I will ever be reunited with my money. Successes from you guys keeps me motivated.

soulsaver

Nowt in my linked a/c again so far today - had a promise yesterday that a team leader would phone me today (Tuesday) at 12:30 ish to confirm that it has happened - probably 'the runaround script...'. KE won't gain from this 'cos as soon as I get my money I'll start the chasing every chuffing penny they are making from interest on my money.