Possible compensation for dial-up fraud

LD

Why is this only limited to dial up and not Broadband?

??? ??? ??? ???

This question shows a level of knowledge that's common amongst the general population and the reason for the sucess of many these 'simple cons'.

The answer is simple, with broadband, whether ADSL, cable or others, you are not using the telephone service, hence no call charge (but read below) - a 'cheaper' version of this scam is a 'distressed' stranger asking to borrow your phone to phone home, then dialling their own premium rate line for several minutes, perhaps one of the posters above should get on to the mobile company for half an hour and let them pay for your gullibility or ignorance, I'm sorry but I don't have much sympathy, contrary to the virus belief expressed above and people running to the police stations to hand in their computers for checking, they or another user of their computer, 'invited' the installation of the dialler and positively clicked 'yes' on a dialogue box and expect BT to pay for their mistake, why stop at BT? if the electric company didn't supply the electricity, your machine couldn't use your phone line to dial.

I agree with the poster above and also not having gone to the solicitors site I think this is another legal con, and in answer to the person who trusts lawyers, the fact is any law firm can attempt to win any case however remote the chances of winning. Bottom line is that you are responsible for calls placed from within your premises (ie. if they had been made by interference with BT's equipment before it gets to you - different ball game).

Yes I agree that all phone companies (incl mobile) should give users better control over their phone line, being able to bar outgoing and incoming calls based on the user criteria, ie. bar 09 and international out, bar caller ID withheld call in and or specific numbers (phone bullying), the prefix thing mention above is good but easily circumvented if it is universal, ie. users should be able to choose their own override number.

In many of the ADSL installs I've done, mainly for friends I have ripped the modem out or at least the cable unless there was a requirment ie. FAX or originally phone call logging (now not required with BT as their online service is vastly improved) in at least two cases I have returned to the computer later to find a dialler installed, which would have operated, but being physically disconnected - couldn't, this is despite having myself installed two pieces of software (Ad Aware Which appears not to have a free version anymore and Spy Bot which is still donationware.) that go some way to preventing or at least detecting (and removing) installed diallers and other nasties, point here is you got to run the software and if you choose not to run it automatically, for whatever reason, @**!# can get in.

A final point and yes I know your comfortable with IE, consider changing browsers, why? because many of the actions used to install nasties are IE specific and don't work (install) with some of the other browsers about.

Tony_H_3

LD you raise some interesting points, especially with removal of dialup modem unless there is a need for it. However, I have come across dialers which effectively lie to the user to get onto their system. eg

"Would you like to install this software update(dialer) - Yes (Really = Yes), No (Really = Yes), X "To Close Dialog" (When Clicked Really = Yes)."

Using CTRL ALT + DEL and the task manager is the only way to successfully terminate the "Dialog Box.

So it's not really fair to blame the owner of the PC if the dialers break the standard coding practices, it's deception plain & simple.

mary

We had an unexpected £80 extra added to our phone bill about 18 months ago to one of these premium rates. We reported it to ICSTIS, who then investigated and traced the number to a company in Germany and told us to write and complain to them, with proof of the sudden unconventional bill. It was a PO Box address. I have written twice and never had a reply. What next. ICSTIS said that the calls had gone over the £20 cut off point, when they were meant to disconnect automatically, so even if we had dialled this premium rate number, which we hadn't, there was a fault. They had been in touch with this company and they had been told they would investigate and offer a refund. So how effective are ICSTIS really. Their advice got us nowhere. We ended up paying the bill, if not BT would disconnect us. We've now barred 090 numbers and have moved to 18866/1899.

nrobinson

I am currently threatening BT with a police enquiry!

They are party to a fraud in the fact that they collected monies for a fraudster - they are therefore complicit.
They acknowledge the fact in that they give all funds gained to charity - whereas in fact they should make the system for use of such numbers more tight so that the problem is reduced or avoided.

Until authorieties put a squeeze on BT for this they have no interest in stopping or limiting it.

And any report of fraud is a criminal and not a civil matter and the police are required to investigate.

I'm hoping this tact will get us somewhere - any thoughts anyone?

Cheers,

Nik.

LD

However, I have come across dialers which effectively lie to the user to get onto their system. eg
..............................................

Using CTRL ALT + DEL and the task manager is the only way to successfully terminate the "Dialog Box.

So it's not really fair to blame the owner of the PC if the dialers break the standard coding practices, it's deception plain & simple.

I accept all you say, but as in real life thieves abound, and whilst I won't ask the type of site your example occured on, most occur on less reputable sites which people visit as a result of a search etc.

also glad you mentioned CTRL ALT + DEL which no doubt will be new to some, (try it now you will see a list of running programs - then just close it)

But the main point I was trying to make was that it wasn't the phone companies fault and other then the standard rate they have to pay the monies to the owners of the line.

I would love to know how many people have read my post - disagreed, but not bothered to check out the two links I gave, hopefully not to many, since many people on this forum are Internet shoppers I would suggest they do, as apart from diallers there are 'data harvesters' and 'keyloggers' which install for the sole purpose of obtaining addresses credit/debit card details etc - identity theft.

Bottom line - unprotected surfing is dangerous.

LD

I am currently threatening BT with a police enquiry!

They are party to a fraud in the fact that they collected monies for a fraudster - they are therefore complicit.
They acknowledge the fact in that they give all funds gained to charity - whereas in fact they should make the system for use of such numbers more tight so that the problem is reduced or avoided.

Until authorieties put a squeeze on BT for this they have no interest in stopping or limiting it.

And any report of fraud is a criminal and not a civil matter and the police are required to investigate.

I'm hoping this tact will get us somewhere - any thoughts anyone?

Cheers,

Nik.

Yes, in a word absurd, as I tried to point out BT are not the operater of these lines, in fact the law states that they have to provide access to these operators and this is one of the downsides to the opening of competiton as one post said the charging company was in Germany others are sprikled all over the world, the only people with clout are the regulators and as also shown above, they are paper tigers

the_foodster

another way to avoid these dodgy boxes is to get a good pop up stopper or add blocker.IE is full of holes so your always going to get rubbish coming through.i've recently installed a new browser called firefox which has a built in adblocker thats good,although it will stop you getting onto certain sites.i had trouble with some holiday firms.its not perfect by any means but it is safer than IE.

happyslap

To avoid the premium scam with B.T., contact them, and request that all outgoingS premium line calls to be blocked. This is done free of charge and can be recinded at any time

Smartasss

They will only bar UK based premium numbers free.

To bar all premium numbers (to any country) you do have to pay - I think around £1.50/month.

The charge gets reduced if you have more services (e.g. call waiting, caller display etc)

rugbmad1

Hi
When my antivirus software found a dialer programme last month on my pc i contacted BT and they said that they could stop premium calls with immeadiate effect so i asked them to do that. Have not had the bill from then as yet but if there is a problem i can assure you all i will not be paying the bill. Also been getting calls telling me to dial 9 to win a prize (which i didnt) no such thing as a free lunch 'apologies martin except on this website'. anyway contacted BT about that too they said just make sure that i dont ring that number but should'nt they stop it so i dont have to worry?

Regards

Dave