A&L credit card

codetown

If people post totally wrong things (such as banks being able to give personal details of customers to third parties without consent) or try to justify who is acting illegally and faking modules... I have to talk clearly.

What I told is not a personal opinion as you think.
There are extrely clear laws about personal data protection (and also against practises of forcing unrequired services). I know this for sure as I am also writing software that helps companies respect these laws...

What I am interested in is not the "opinion" of peers with regard to credit cards opened without consent.
My question is instead:
- does anyone know if there are internal bonuses or reward schemes that A&L gives to their employees for a number of credit cards emitted?
That's what I am trying to discover and that is to get an understanding if there is a fraud made in my local branch or if this could be a genuine mistake.

codetown

dc wrote:

One, you would lose your bet, ( on that I am confident, purely on the fact that you have never heard of MBNA alone),

Don't be so confident.... you might win on UK credit cards ... but I talk about total credit cards from different banks in Europe on which I can bet really a lot... It was anyway only to tell you I know what the advantages of credit cards are and I appreciate them as you probably do as well.

For the other points.. I repeat that it seems to me you do not grasp at all data protection laws and you do not understand that a person who enters into a relationsip with a company (A&L) does NOT enter into a relation with all third parties such as MBNA (except if you explicitly accept such clause, which I am sure I did not as I read all the fine prints as well).
That's all. It is not a matter of personal opinions on this. It is a clear fact.

My question -I believe- is very clear and I reinstated above and is referring principally to financial gain that A&L employees might have from opening cards without consent of the person.

If you can reply to it, it will be useful information to me. Thank you.

Galstonian

Unfortunately you have allowed both A&L and MBNA the right to send you marketing materials for other products by applying for one of their accounts (see here https://www.applications.alliance-leicester.co.uk/smartapps/declaration.asp?lookfeel=currentaccounts&prepopapptype=premplus&tunnel=yes&ct=curraccmenurepopapptype=premplus&tunnel=yes&ct=curraccmenu)

References to "We", "Us" or "Our" are references to Alliance & Leicester plc and other companies in Our Group.*

....

We may use personal information about you, including details of any transactions on your account, to contact you about other products or services.

....

* Alliance & Leicester Group at the time of printing means Alliance & Leicester plc and its subsidiaries (whether direct or indirect) including (but not limited to) Alliance & Leicester Commercial Bank plc and Alliance & Leicester Commercial Finance plc.



This conversation is descending into a fight, if it continues to do so I will be forced to close the thread and prevent further discussions (in my role as "board guide"), I would prefer not to do this.



If you do not wish this to happen (and this applies to everyone) please:
- state clearly what you would like to know
- refrain from making accusations about the motives of other posters

codetown

Galstonian and all,
I have still two unanswered questions regarding A&L credit cards:

1)As you correctly state here:
"Alliance & Leicester Group at the time of printing means Alliance & Leicester plc and its subsidiaries (whether direct or indirect) including (but not limited to) Alliance & Leicester Commercial Bank plc and Alliance & Leicester Commercial Finance plc."

So I gave my consent for Alliance & Leister plc and subsidaries to process my data (as I obviosuly knew). But still don't see where MBNA comes into play with me.
Isn't MBNA a different company?
Do you know if MBNA is a subsidiary or part of the Alliance & Leicester plc group?

[please let alone the credit card services as I never asked for a credit card from A&L in the first place; I already understand from previous replies that MBNA offers services also for A&L customers who require them]

2) Does anyone know if there are internal bonuses or reward schemes that A&L gives to their employees for a certain number of credit cards emitted (i.e. 20% extra salary or a bonus for xx cards or accounts sold in a month/year)?

Galstonian

1) MBNA operate the credit card on behalf of Alliance and Leicester, I do not know the exact relationship between the two but if you read the link I posted it does mention MBNA Europe Bank towads the bottom: "The Alliance & Leicester Credit Card is issued by MBNA Europe Bank limited"

2) I do not know but suspect a 20% bonus to be fanciful for bank staff who are generally salaried and do not operate any kind of OTE.

I also think that this could very easily be a very simple and genuine mistake. If you fill out an application it has to be transcribed onto their system and data entry errors, especially a single key error like you suggest, are common enough. If you are so adamant that you do not want a credit card then surely just not returning the agreement is sufficient? You cannot get a credit card without signing a paper copy of the agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, this is NOT the application form. If you have not signed an agreement yet have received a card then you might have grounds for thinking that there may have been fraudulent activity (only grounds for suspicion though, not proof).

codetown

Galstonian wrote:

1) MBNA operate the credit card on behalf of Alliance and Leicester, I do not know the exact relationship between the two but if you read the link I posted it does mention MBNA Europe Bank towads the bottom: "The Alliance & Leicester Credit Card is issued by MBNA Europe Bank limited"

Thank you. I have done further research and have found no direct legal relationship between the the Alliance & Leicester plc group and MBNA. The two companies seem to operate as totally separate businesses as far as I can see and therefore there is no right from MBNA to have access to information from A&L customers unless the customers require MBNA services (i.e. A&L credit cards).

So anyone opening a A&L current account and NOT requiring a credit card should NOT be contacted by MBNA.

You cannot get a credit card without signing a paper copy of the agreement under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, this is NOT the application form. If you have not signed an agreement yet have received a card then you might have grounds for thinking that there may have been fraudulent activity (only grounds for suspicion though, not proof).

I invite anyone to be very vigilant.
I know about the Consumer Credit Act agreement form and that is the key point of my complaint and search for further information. I have not signed it (or seen it from A&L) and yet MBNA called me to discuss raising their standard credit limit on the card they had already been preparing with my name, associated with my account etc! And when I said I did not want the card they said I should sort this out with the bank and not with them as they just shuffle forms they receive around!!!!
I have no problem in refusing the card (as I did on the phone and will do if it arrives by post) but I do not like having to act on this and for different reasons:
- First this damages the credit rating, second it might condition future acceptances in their scheme (what if in january they put a special offer giving new customers of their credit card 100 pounds? I would probably not be a 'new customer' for the card anymore etc), third it is distrurbing for me knowing that I gave some instructions to a bank and they did the opposite!
And then I also think: what if that happened to my granfather instead of me? Would he be able to understand and refuse the extra services (maybe even not free) pushed on him?
Any practise of faking forms should be eradicated totally and not justified in the slightest in my view.

Galstonian

I have done further research and have found no direct legal relationship between the the Alliance & Leicester plc group and MBNA.

So being contracted to operate all their credit card business is not a legal relationship in your view?

I agree you should not have had this problem but you do appear to be making a very great deal out of a very small problem. You might be better off trying to rectify the problem and ascertain what the consequences were.

In answer to your points:
First: if you find that credit searches have been carried out you should ask (in writing) for A&L to remove them (this can be done).
Second: A&L do not usually offer incentives like that for credit cards, they offer (like almost all MBNA run cards) balance transfers at preferential, possibly 0%, rates. Ask if you will still qulify as a new customer after this is sorted out, they may even offer you something better.
Third: there are many disturbing things in this world and this doesn't really rank that highly.
Fourht: It wasn't. If you want to worry about all the things that might have happened you'll put yourself in an early grave.

Finally: you have no evidence of faking forms, it is your stance that I find hard to justify. Why is it so hard to think that perhaps this was a simple mistake? Incompetence is far more likely than malice in my opinion.

codetown

Galestonian,
1) MBNA is NOT part of the Alliance and Leicester plc group nor is a subsidiary of it. So they do NOT have any rights whatsoever in having access to your data.

The fact that A&L contracts out some credit card services to MBNA does NOT authorise them to get access to information about A&L customers, unless A&L customers require those services
I hope this is clear.

A&L also contracts out many other services (including canteen services, courier services etc) but these have NOTHING to do with your agreement with A&L, which does NOT authorise these third parties to get access to your details
(do you feel that citylink or gourmet should have access to your details because they have some commercial agreement with A&L on some services you never required???)

I, as many other persons, signed an agreement with A&L and should be confident they will not abuse that agreement giving my details to third parties. To me MBNA is a third party as it American Express , Tesco etc.
I do not want junk from them and I have a right to ask this been respected.
And even more I have to feel angry when they send out a full credit card which was never requisted and for which I never signed anything.

2) Regarding the rest, I sent you a PM with some more details.
I can only guess you don't see what is happening as you do not have the full details. I can guarantee you that this is much more serious than you think and I will be dealing this case with the authorities, as there are many additional things going on in parallel, which convinced me there is a scam of some sort going on.

I suggest any A&L customer be vigilant to what is happening to their accounts, cards etc.

Brum_Man

codetown wrote:

My question is instead:
- does anyone know if there are internal bonuses or reward schemes that A&L gives to their employees for a number of credit cards emitted?

No there is not, the bonuses are based on the opening of the premier account, and whether that account has credit card with it or not does not have any bearing on the bonus

How about this:

"IMPORTANT – DATA PROTECTION

Before signing the agreement you must read sections 13 and 14 in the terms and conditions provided. You agree that we (MBNA Europe Bank Limited) may process, use, record and disclose your personal information as described in sections 13 and 14 and make such enquiries as we consider necessary, including of Alliance & Leicester plc and its subsidiaries (‘Alliance & Leicester’) who will tell us about other accounts that you hold with them, in connection with this, or any future Alliance & Leicester Credit Card application to, or agreement with, us or any member of the MBNA Group (but only to the extent where your application is not accepted). We will use our automated credit scoring system when assessing your application, and we will disclose your personal information to credit reference agencies."

I am a little unsure the reason beind this thread, as any advice, info etc has been berated. Maybe it was to try and warn people? If so, the tone of the thread will have killed any credability behind that warning.

codetown

Brum_Man wrote:

I am a little unsure the reason beind this thread, as any advice, info etc has been berated. Maybe it was to try and warn people? If so, the tone of the thread will have killed any credability behind that warning.

Thanks for the bits regarding the data protection on credit card requests.
That thing is only affecting A&L customers who requested a credit card of course and NOT every A&L customer.

As of the reason of this thread, I think it is obvious in the questions I raised at the beginning (and partly I repeated afterwards). I was looking for reasons that could have caused many serious wrongdoings by A&L including (but not limited to) opening a credit card in my name with no consent, no signatures no request of any type on my side. As an aside I also asked opinions on data protection laws (and the relationships A&L-MBNA), which in my view should be taken much more seriously by everyone.

I sent a warning to every A&L customer as it is something that might affect other people as well, who might see unwanted services appearing for them without even having asked for or signed anything.
If you are not checking regularly your A&L situation I suggest you do it now as I have seen a lot of 'strange things' happening in the last weeks. These might be 'mistakes' but given the numbers I can't believe it is the case.
You are free to take the advice or totally ignore it.
If you wish more details, you can easily contact me by PM.