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Job Termination Due To Illness

Confessoress
Posts: 14 Forumite
I have today had my contract with the company I work(ed) for terminated due to illness (this is what they stated). I had been with the company 2 years today (which is why I think they let me go today, for lack of having to pay me a certain amount after 2 years of employment).
My quality of work has never been in dispute. During my time there I have been promoted. Have received much praise for my hard work.
I was given a vague letter 2 days ago requiring me to attend a 'Company Management Review' (which was apparently discussed in more detail in the 'Company Handbook' which I was never given) meeting. In this meeting they terminated my employment.
I have had periods of absence over the last 18 months to varying degrees, which have been signed off by my personal GP. I have also seen the company's occupational health doctor, which confirmed what my personal GP also did. Work had given me the chance to gradually intergrate back into work part-time (which they paid me per-hour for instead of my full time contract), which I did. I cannot deny that they had been understanding of my situation. They also referred me to councillor which I have attended since. I returned to full time hours. Unfortunately I had a period of short relapse from the existing illness, which was then followed by another short period of illness - of a completely unrelated nature (tonsillitus - which was also signed off from my doctor).
I would be willing to take a pay cut, a demotion and to be put on a long probationary period.
I returned to work 2 weeks ago after a period of 2 weeks off.
I have never been given a verbal warning, nor a written warning of what may happen if certain expections regarding absence were not met.
I don't believe the correct statutory discipline procedures have been followed prior to my dismissal. Verbal warning, written warning, disiplinary meeting, dismissal. Although I cannot be sure of this - as I don't know how I stand legally.
I am considering an appeal. But I don't know whether I actually have any legal standing, or what action to take.
Also, am I entitled to claim any allowances/benefits during my present situation? I will obviously be looking for new employment, but I forsee this being troublesome given the reasons I have been dismissed from my previous job (which I loved). In an ideal world I would want my old job back.
I had also unfortunately been informed by my land-lady 2 weeks prior to aforementioned that she is going to sell the property I have rented for the last 2 years due to her friends who own half the property wanting to sell, and her not affording to buy them out. I have never missed a payment and look after the property well, she has been very happy with me as a tentant. I had due to this been looking for somewhere new to live, which is now also going to be troublesome as I am now technically unemployed (and I have a dog, which was work-a-roundable before, but with being unemployment as well - not so much) and do not have the financial means to pay my rent. I was on a fairly good annual wage of £17,567k at my job and I really now do not know what to do, what I am entitled to, if anything!
:-(
My quality of work has never been in dispute. During my time there I have been promoted. Have received much praise for my hard work.
I was given a vague letter 2 days ago requiring me to attend a 'Company Management Review' (which was apparently discussed in more detail in the 'Company Handbook' which I was never given) meeting. In this meeting they terminated my employment.
I have had periods of absence over the last 18 months to varying degrees, which have been signed off by my personal GP. I have also seen the company's occupational health doctor, which confirmed what my personal GP also did. Work had given me the chance to gradually intergrate back into work part-time (which they paid me per-hour for instead of my full time contract), which I did. I cannot deny that they had been understanding of my situation. They also referred me to councillor which I have attended since. I returned to full time hours. Unfortunately I had a period of short relapse from the existing illness, which was then followed by another short period of illness - of a completely unrelated nature (tonsillitus - which was also signed off from my doctor).
I would be willing to take a pay cut, a demotion and to be put on a long probationary period.
I returned to work 2 weeks ago after a period of 2 weeks off.
I have never been given a verbal warning, nor a written warning of what may happen if certain expections regarding absence were not met.
I don't believe the correct statutory discipline procedures have been followed prior to my dismissal. Verbal warning, written warning, disiplinary meeting, dismissal. Although I cannot be sure of this - as I don't know how I stand legally.
I am considering an appeal. But I don't know whether I actually have any legal standing, or what action to take.
Also, am I entitled to claim any allowances/benefits during my present situation? I will obviously be looking for new employment, but I forsee this being troublesome given the reasons I have been dismissed from my previous job (which I loved). In an ideal world I would want my old job back.
I had also unfortunately been informed by my land-lady 2 weeks prior to aforementioned that she is going to sell the property I have rented for the last 2 years due to her friends who own half the property wanting to sell, and her not affording to buy them out. I have never missed a payment and look after the property well, she has been very happy with me as a tentant. I had due to this been looking for somewhere new to live, which is now also going to be troublesome as I am now technically unemployed (and I have a dog, which was work-a-roundable before, but with being unemployment as well - not so much) and do not have the financial means to pay my rent. I was on a fairly good annual wage of £17,567k at my job and I really now do not know what to do, what I am entitled to, if anything!
:-(
0
Comments
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Hopefully someone will be along soon who is up on this - but I always understood myself that employers had to go through various procedures before they could dismiss someone - even for illness. Verbal warning, etc as you quoted sounds about right to me. They cant just dismiss you out of the blue - I reckon they are looking for job cuts anyway in the current financial climate and you are an easy target. Its a try-on to do it like this - and they hope they will get away with it. Obviously they're desperate to reduce the head count as fast as possible to pick on the "weakest link" like they have and ignore your rights.
Try googling for the TUC website and the section they have there on workers rights.
good luck.0 -
Its bad news but a company can dispense with anyones services if they have good reason to and they are not acting illegally. At a very basic level,a contract of employment is that a company pays you to do work,you turn up and do it as arranged. If they feel that you are not doing that or that abscences have been unacceptable then thats it,game over.0
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Hopefully someone will be along soon who is up on this - but I always understood myself that employers had to go through various procedures before they could dismiss someone - even for illness. Verbal warning, etc as you quoted sounds about right to me. They cant just dismiss you out of the blue - I reckon they are looking for job cuts anyway in the current financial climate and you are an easy target. Its a try-on to do it like this - and they hope they will get away with it. Obviously they're desperate to reduce the head count as fast as possible to pick on the "weakest link" like they have and ignore your rights.
Try googling for the TUC website and the section they have there on workers rights.
good luck.
Thank you for your reply ceridwen.
The irony is, while in this current climate you'd expect cuts to be made, our company has been growing and fast! We bought our another company altogether a couple of months ago. They are employing new people, there's even a massive spread about them looking to employ new people in the local paper!
My team had been restructuring lately, I don't think this is coincidence and I think I'd become a non-entity not entirely by my doings via illness. My boss left to do something else higher up within the company, but has supported my new boss (of a few weeks), who... is 19 years old. Now while this is slightly irrelevant - he was molded by my old boss into that position and they are good friends. Anyone given the attention he got could have possibly done the same. I'm not disputing this new boss is capable, I think he is. But I've seen it happen too often, it's who you know. Also someone else, who actually lives with my ex boss was promoted to my new bosses old position. A girl on my team, though accepting she probably wouldn't of got the job was never given the opportunity to do so, and therefore spoke to the new boss 2 days ago. No original team members exist because they were either forced out, left out due to personal relationships, left etc. But how does one voice these opinions without it seeming like sour grapes? I kept my head down and did my work, dispite feeling very left out last year.
Background. I started my role at the company from the bottom. The team was temporary with the view to become premanant if it all worked out. It was starting on the temporary contact at 11k a year. I got the job and worked extremely hard. I was promoted within 1 month and given much praise, I was then responsible for overseeing the assistants and part-time workers work with another senior team member. I, with my boss and other senior team member worked hard and did overtime to make the team a permnant fixture. Evenually our hard work paid off. After a period of time my salary went up to 17k. Our team became one of the largest revenue streams for the company.
Irony is the other senior member was then pushed out when a new assistant was hired and became extremely friendly with my boss. A role was created for this guy in effect, over the head of my collegue the other senior member of staff (who had been on the team with my boss from day 1). Needless to say this role then became my bosses vice president so to speak. My collegue the senior member of staff was unhappy, obviously. He was extremely capable and worked his !!! off to get the team built up. There was much tention between my boss, his vice and my collegue for a long time. The vice boss would often try and frame my collegue for mistakes of vice bosses making! My collegue was pushed out in effect, and took another role within the company managing another team! Things worked out for him evenually. During all this I just kept my head down and worked hard. I was always told I was well liked by my boss in personal reviews, but maybe that's because I was a walk over...
My first absence last year was due to work related stress. I was responsible for people on my team, their reviews and I always had my own personal work level which had become unbarable. We were under staffed at the time. I didn't want to lose my job and felt I should be able to cope. I always felt crimplingly left out (the team went to the pub one day and I stayed behind with my boss and my boss under him to resolve a work issue regarding another company - I helped resolve this issue. Once done both of them went to another pub and just left me at work alone. They knew I couldn't drive. A collegue at the pub was so disgusted she came back and picked me up [petty stuff, but little things like that all built up]). I was the girl that would work her !!! off (miss lunch sometimes, to keep up) and not stand up for herself. A walk over.
I discussed with my boss about the fact I was finding the statistics side of things hard to cope with (when I was employed I told my boss at the interview stats weren't my strong point). He said about this new cross over role that would be coming up, and that he thought it would be suitable for me. I took on this role, but couldn't do what the role stated because the other team were too busy to train me!
It seemed my role didn't exist anymore. I did some SQL to aid our team and bits and peices. I was then off for a period of time with work related stress. Someone who I thought was a friend (collegue) encouraged this time off. I later found out it was probably for her own benefit. She took my old role as a senior (as I was now supposed to be doing another one), and then dropped me as a friend like a stone. I was signed off by my doctor and the company doctor agreed. I was intergrated back to work part-time, they paid me per hour. I got back to working full time and some responsibilities that were delegated to other team member were returned to me (by this point they weren't large anyway)...
It seemed like one thing after another. I went back to work full time, then relapsed. I went on anti-depressants and medications. And was seeking treatment via the NHS. I went back to work part-time, then built up to full-time, then relapsed again. I was sent to the company doctor, who thought I should keep on with part-time for a while and build it back up again. I did this. Work suggested a councillor, and gave me the details. It was on a donation basis, work would have paid this but I refused saying they had done enough for me and I paid it. The irony of this is with the councillors help I came to realise I was being a walk over and I needed to stand up for my regarding certain things. I needed to stop worrying constantly. I stood up for myself and came out of myself, and guess what? Some people didn't like that much. Oh no, she's not a walk over anymore.
Then came the nail in my coffin I suppose. I'd been working full time for a while doing well, then in November time my relationship of 3 years... we discussed a little timeout on his thoughts really. I passed my driving theory test one day and texted to tell him. I got a reply saying well done etc, which was followed by 'how's single' life? I was devastated. Around Christmas time I found out he was taking his 'girlfriend' of what could only be a month on a romantic holiday away. I was totally and utterly heartbroken. At this point I had been battling work issues, ill health etc for a long time by myself and I had a complete breakdown. I was ashamed to say I self harmed (never a threat to other people), overdosed and was very nearly admitted to hospital. It took me a while, but I slowly went back to work at the start of this year to varying stages of success.
I got back to work full time.
I'd been having a great deal of trouble sleeping for months, and I was attempting to come off sleeping tablets which was agreed with my personal doctor. My immune system went to pot because of this, after months of 2 hours of sleep a night a trying to work full time I was exhausted and was feeling terribly ill. I went back my doctor who signed me off for a week with exhaustion. I went back to work, was there a few weeks then picked up the flu! By this point I was rather upset, I'd been trying so hard. I communicated what was going on with my ex boss (was still half boss at time) and spoke to HR. I went back to work for a couple days, still feeling poorly, saw the company doctor, since the company wanted clarification. I explained to him that I had been back full time for a while now, but explained about the trouble sleeping, that the fact I've had the flu was an extremely annoying set back to my progress. He suggested going back to my doctor and going back on a different medication to help me sleep. He also wanted to get me treatment via them that I was on the NHS waiting list ages for. He brought the other doctor in, it was going to arranged if work agreed to make another appointment with him after his report.
It never happened. I went back to work 2 weeks ago, and was feeling pretty confident in my health now - I was really starting to get back into things. I was sleeping and thought this might actually be looking good. Then I got the letter this Tuesday... Thursday, the end. In the meeting my now ex-boss with the lady I'd been in contact with the whole period during illness attended, along with my new boss. I did not have someone with me as I did not belong a trade union and I got the impression my collegues didn't really want to get involved and I didn't want to hinder their situations either. The one person that would have come, had a training day unfortunately.
My ex boss conducted the meeting largely (which he would since he was my boss the longest period of time), with my new boss taking notes/minutes. He explained that the company have done what they could for me, even sending me to their occupational health doctor, gave me the part-time to ingrate back to work, juggled my responsibilities around, and now it was effecting the team because in my absence they were having to take on extra work (although by this point I had low priority responsibilites, I discovered people hadn't really worked on these in my absence), that my absences were of varying periods of time. I agreed this to be the truth. So due to the aforementioned, they would have to terminate my contact...
I nodded. The HR lady then began speaking to me, asking if I have her phone number I said yes at home somewhere, she made a point of leaving the room to get me her business card and said to call her, even if it's for an hour (she did genuinely care I believe). That my health must be my priority, I at this point said I'd come a long way and she agreed, and said I must continue to do that. By this point I completely broke down. I said thank you to her and my boss for helping for the time they did. I thanked my boss for the opportunity to work there in the first place. I also thanked my current boss. HR lady then told me, that when I was feeling at a point where I could be well for ex amount of time to contact her, given my good track record. That as I know the company is always growing, that I would have just as much right as anyone else to apply for the jobs. The irony here, was I was feeling better at this point, much better. I said please can I speak a moment. I stated I felt I'd come a long way, and the tonsillitus was an unfortunate draw back, that I know felt I was at the point I could do very well. They nodded, nothing more was added to this. I will be paid at the end of this month and month in lew.
My boss brought up a friend of mine, to chat, as I was rather upset. And he went down to tell the team about my leaving, as I did not want to go down and face them. My friend went and collected my belongings (which I'd gathered because although no one else thought they would, I had a strong feeling I was going to be fired). My (ex)boss came into the room alone to say thank you for all my hard work and that he was sorry, and he did seem genuinely upset (we've had our ups and downs, kind of like a family really). 2 of my friends, my boss, my ex boss, the HR lady saw me out (not because they had to) they all seemed geniunely upset. I hugged them all, said thank you. My friends waited to I was picked up. That was it.
You can imagine how I'm feeling right now. I'm not going to have a house to live in, I'm feeling mentally low and my anxienty is gradually increasing (which a total draw back for me), not very strong at all regarding looking for other jobs right now. I feel a complete failure, that everything I worked for was worthless. That my chance of getting another job to match on my qualifications is not possible, and not at the wage I was getting. I worked hard to work my way up the ranks and to do that again right now, I feel I don't have the drive or energy. I'm not going to be able to pay my bills. I'm probably going to have to resort to scrubbing toilets for a while. I was having driving lessons, that I now won't be able to continue, a license may of helped me with jobs to match my experience further away...
I'm sorry for this extremely long post.0 -
I too am sure that there is a procedure to follow for termination due to illness/absence just as there is for disciplinary procedures.
The two years mark doesn't really make a difference as it's only 1 year's service which makes you eligible to claim unfair dismissal etc.
You should take advice quite swiftly - try CAB or ACAS.
Let us know how you get on!0 -
Confessoress you posted that while I was doing my post.
I think you've had a bad time there and they sound very much like the last company I worked for. I ended up leaving there without a job to go to - but that's a whole other story. But I just wanted to say that I understand - there are many companies out there who treat the 'face fits' employees fantastically and work the others to extremes then pass them by when their usefullness is over. It is easy to say bring up a grievance but a lot harder to do. Believe me, hun, I know where you are coming from.
However, in your particular circumstances I would as I said get some advice from CAB or ACAS. Ignore everything about what everyone else has done - unless there is someone else there who has had a similar absence record and they have treated them differently. It's your case that matters and what they have or havent' done to others is irrelevant.0 -
This has obviously been a severe dent to your confidence and so soon after your illness it's bound to knock you back. However, look at how well you did to pull yourself back to working again and inclreasing your hours. You did really, really well. That shows how strong a person you are. That deserves some recognition from you.
You said yourself how well you had done since starting with that company - regularly being praised for your hard work, promoted etc. That's a real achievement!
You're bound to feel low again after such a blow but try to focus on the up. They paid you for a month in leiu which will give you time to get your breath back and start looking for something new.
Try not to allow yourself to fall back again. Take deep breaths and smile. Even when you feel the opposite, a smile will lift your mood. Ignore all the negative points of losing your job. When they come into your mind, refuse to acknowledge them and choose a point you did like to focus on such as the friends you made, how good you were at what you did.
I know it's easy to say, but you did this once and you can do it again. Best of luck with it all.x0 -
The page you are looking for is this ACAS page I think.DFW Nerd #025DFW no more! Officially debt free 2017 - now joining the MFW's!
My DFW Diary - blah- mildly funny stuff about my journey0 -
Does sound like there has been some "if your face fits" scenarios going on there.
I think its worth making that phonecall to the H.R. woman - what have you got to lose after all?
Sounds like you've just had a bit of bad luck - thoroughly exacerbated by problems in other areas of your life happening at the same time. Sometimes s...t happens and everything gets "thrown at the fan" at once. Regard this as being a bad patch - and it obviously is a pretty bad patch - but you will fight back from this and recover.
Good luck.0 -
Thank you all for your replies and thoughts.
I contacted the CAB about the matter, just to check where I stand in all this, if there is any benefits I can now claim while I decide what to do next.
Here's the reply I received:
"Thank you for email dated 17th October 2008 regarding employment.
Sickness is a potentially fair reason for dismissal - if you are too ill or do not have the ability to do the job
Your employer must, however, follow the correct Disciplinary and Dismissal Procedure. You should have had a letter saying why they were contemplating dismissal or asking you to attend a meeting at a reasonable time and place. Then they must hold a meeting with you and, if they dismiss you, tell you that you may appeal and then hold an appeal meeting.
If they arrange a meeting and you do not attend then they do not have to follow the rest of the DDP and any award you may get from an employment tribunal will be reduced.
If your employers did not follow the correct DD procedure then it is automatic unfair dismissal and you may go to an employment tribunal (must be done within 3 months less one day from the date of your termination) for compensation.
We are not sure from your email what exactly happened in your case. You could ring 08444 99 4118 for a gateway assessment of your problem. They may suggest you see a generalist adviser or our employment specialist.
You can apply for job seekers allowance by ringing DWP on 0800 055 6688. They will also advise you about eligibility to housing and council tax benefits.
We hope this has been helpful to you. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you need further advice."
My question here would be 'too ill or ability to do my job'. I COULD do my job, I'd been back 2 weeks and had been doing my job very well. I was signed off due to tonsillitus, which was most likely picked up in the workplace anyway (since the whole team had been ill). My work had a written report from both my own doctor and their company doctor (who actually wanted to help me further by giving me theaphy) stating that my recovery may take some time and there is a possibility for relaspe, but while present I would be able to do my job. While adjustments were made to my responsibilites for my intial return, after the new situation further adjustments were not made where I was willing and able to work. I could do the role, when present. It was unfortunate that I got a virus that was completely unrelated to my long term illness which I was getting on top of! Their arguement was that it was unfair to my fellow team members, that they would have to take on extra work in my absence... expect that isn't a full truth.
Was it coincidental that the team was restructing at the time, that my boss left and 2 promotions happened? I don't think so. Or the fact that my boss and I had the first falling out ever 4 weeks prior, because thanks to my councillor's help I finally stood up for myself?
And if they have indeed dismissed me because they think I am unfit for work, then surely I will be entitled to incapacity benefit? Do not get me wrong, I want to work. But I guess I need to think about whether I can and will it effect my health.
I realise there is a limit, as a company, they are out to make money. But surely from a dedicated employee that has genuine illness, and has constantly battled back to work instead of taking extremely lengthly periods of time off...
This has been a massive blow to my progress and health.0 -
Hi there,
I edit a magazine that includes an employment law feature/article every few months written by a team of employment law solicitors based in Ipswich (Suffolk) and Chelmsford (Essex). I don't have any professional association with this company - however, I am led to believe that their reputation is fairly impressive. I recently recommended them to a friend who was given great advice and support re their own employment situation.
You can find them via www.prettys.co.uk
The person my friend dealt with is Lynn O'Malley. I believe the initial fact-finding conversation is free. And, in the event that you need further/ongoing legal advice or representation Prettys advised my friend that this kind of legal advice is normally included in your standard household insurance policy. Obviously you would need to check this but it could save you a lot of money if you do go down that route.
As I say, I am not an employment law professional myself - just a writer. But I have gone through the employment law route myself in years gone by and know just how stressful it can be - and you are obviously feeling pretty low.
I hope this helps in some way. Good luck with whatever you decide to do next.Debt free journey (from Jan 25):
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