How to approach the school, Re:appropriate education

Zziggi

galvanizersbaby wrote: »

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve at your chosen school with 5 year old DD
Do you want her to go in to the year above with older children or are you hoping that she gets statemented so that she will qualify for funding for extra money for tuition?

I know it is not easy to get a child statemented certainly at such a young age (my BIL is a clinical psychologist)

I've got a 4 year old (just started in reception) and a son in Year 1 and they both pulled the ill at school routine at first and did the bored thing (though not because they were far advanced education wise just because of their ages)

5 is really young - what are her social skills like? - i.e. could she cope with being placed with older children?

I don't have any hidden or ulterior motives with this issue. I'm also acutely aware that i could be percieved as a pushy mum if i start asking too many questions with regard to DDs education or if I actually state I want her to be moved up a year (at her old school the Head suggested it, i never asked or even hinted at it although when she did start at School B i made it clear she had completed the reception year syllabus and showed them evidence of this with a view to moving up a year).

I just want a suitable education for my DD. Her social skills are fine, she mixed easily with the Reception children (when she was nursery) plus her reception class at school A was made up of the eldest kids in the year so they were all 12 months older than her. At her new school she tends to gravitate towards the Y2s but has started mixing with a small group of girls her age (who funnily enough are all older ones in the year). I don't have concerns with her mixing with kids 1 or 2 years above her age. Afterall, if she'd have been born 2 weeks earlier she'd be in the age group above anyway (September baby). In the 'normal' world people mix with others of different ages. My best friend is 58 whilst I'm mid-thirties. Only in school must we stick to people our own age.[but this is a whole other issue that often Home Educators bring up].

I don't want her statemented, I'm not angling after this at all. I know how hard statementing is as I have a son with high functioning ASD probs that are impacting on his education but he gets zero extra help in the classroom.

What i don't understand is why school B were at great pains to emphasize to me several times that they classed DD as 'special needs'. I never asked for the 'special needs' label nor did School A ever refer to her as special needs. Also school B went to great lengths to inform all parents this year that 'special needs' covers children not meeting educational targets AND children achieving above their age-related targets. In past years 'special needs' was assumed to equate to 'backward'. So why feel the need to emphasize this distinction generally within the school literature and to tell me personally this (so i assumed they were talking of DD when they said about higher-end special needs in the parents' meetings) when it means nothing, they do nothing 'extra' or different, she isn't statemented and gets nothing to 'help' her (i.e. tailored work). Maybe if she was at the lower-end they'd be more set-up to provide suitable 'help'?

I suppose a more refined question I am asking is that I want to know IF there is any help/support out there for G&T-type kids in infants. If there isn't any then I will know the school is doing all it can so I will have to just do what I can. However if there is any help/support out there that the school is not accessing then I can make sure the school are aware of it so I can be sure the school is doing what it can.

going2die_rich

I think in the end your child may perform in educational matters, she may struggle in the social aspect. Everyone in her class will be a year older and sooner or later the differences will become apparent. So unless you want your daughter to be forced to grow up quicker than she should I think you'd be better off leaving her where she is. You can still stimulate her mind outside of school yourself. Why push someone who is gifted to do something sooner where she would be average compared to stay where she should be where she'd be seen as "gifted"?

galvanizersbaby

Zziggi wrote: »

What i don't understand is why school B were at great pains to emphasize to me several times that they classed DD as 'special needs'. I never asked for the 'special needs' label nor did School A ever refer to her as special needs. Also school B went to great lengths to inform all parents this year that 'special needs' covers children not meeting educational targets AND children achieving above their age-related targets. In past years 'special needs' was assumed to equate to 'backward'. So why feel the need to emphasize this distinction generally within the school literature and to tell me personally this (so i assumed they were talking of DD when they said about higher-end special needs in the parents' meetings) when it means nothing, they do nothing 'extra' or different, she isn't statemented and gets nothing to 'help' her (i.e. tailored work). Maybe if she was at the lower-end they'd be more set-up to provide suitable 'help'?

I suppose a more refined question I am asking is that I want to know IF there is any help/support out there for G&T-type kids in infants. If there isn't any then I will know the school is doing all it can so I will have to just do what I can. However if there is any help/support out there that the school is not accessing then I can make sure the school are aware of it so I can be sure the school is doing what it can.

I guess all schools work differently but it sounds as though school A were better geared/suited to your daughters early years (education wise) - I think you are probably correct when you say that if your daughter was at the lower end of the special needs then she'd be more likely to get suitable help.
Not sure what to suggest but hopefully somebody in the know will be along soon to help - good luck x

Gingham_Ribbon

going2die_rich wrote: »

I think in the end your child may perform in educational matters, she may struggle in the social aspect. Everyone in her class will be a year older and sooner or later the differences will become apparent. So unless you want your daughter to be forced to grow up quicker than she should I think you'd be better off leaving her where she is. You can still stimulate her mind outside of school yourself. Why push someone who is gifted to do something sooner where she would be average compared to stay where she should be where she'd be seen as "gifted"?

I hope you don't mind me saying, but this is the kind of thing that is facing gifted kids every day and causing untold damage.

The OP's DD isn't having social problems. She wants to play with children a little older by the sound of it, which given that she probably has a wider vocabulary than children her own age and perhaps wants to talk about things that some of the younger ones don't understand yet, is hardly surprising.

Doing academic work that suits her ability won't make her grow up quicker than she 'should'. And wanting her to do work fitting her ability, and especially NOT wanting her to REPEAT a year is hardly 'pushing' her.

If the child was struggling with the work no-one would suggest making her do the work she couldn't keep up with, so WHY are we forcing high ability children to sit through lessons that are mind numbingly boring for them?

As many as 40% or more of children who leave education before completing their A levels are believed to be gifted children who have switched off. Studies in America confirm that 30-40% of high school drop outs are gifted.

This is a major problem in our schools and our society's attitude to the very able. The automatic assumption is that there's something socially lacking or that their parents are pushy. In reality, although the social side may often appear to be a problem, this is usually down to asynchronous development - ie they are socially in line with other children their age and way ahead academically. And instead of pushy parents egging their children to learn more and more, most are desperate to help them 'fit in'.

Gingham_Ribbon

The help available, Ziggi, is most likely to come from the NAGC. If the school is allowing your daughter to repeat a year, you're unlikely to get the answers you need without some back-up.

Spendless

What about your child going back to school A for the infant years, then going to school B's junior school. Is school B a seperate infant and junior school too?Check your LEA's requirement for applying for schools but here in catchment comes before out of catchment in feeder school.

skintchick

I've no idea what the rules are, but at my private school one of the girls in my class should have been in the year below but she was gifted so she was in ours and we never thought of her as any different - she went on to college and uni a year early also and is now a doctor.

I don;t see why she can;t be in the year above or that it would do her any harm.

Having said that, I was also gifted and in order to get me a decent education my parents had to take me out of state school and put me in private - is that something you could do?

mrcow

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

My son didn't like reading the school reading scheme books either as they were well below his ability.

I just told him to read them as quickly as possible, get them out of the way and then when the reading scheme was finished he would be allowed to choose his own reading material (which was the case in his school).

This worked well, but he was a bit older than your daughter - about 7.

I've kind of handled this a slightly different way.

My son's school were were not helping his reading at all. He's fluent and the difference between his school books and home books at times has been laughable. I've been up the school so many times explaining this and they'll move him up so many "levels" etc, but the simple answer is that he's not at the stage any more where a reading level is particularly appropriate.

It was causing a lot of stress as I was trying to help him progress through the scheme to get to a level where he was getting more exciting books, but it just wasn't happening as his ability was developing faster than his progression. I guess I went to see his teacher for the last time out of sheer exasperation, and tbh she was great about it.

The solution we've found is that I've told his teacher that I'm not going to worry too much about his school books any more. He's no longer following their reading scheme as such. I get library books out for him now that he wants to read or he just reads books from home and I just log them in his reading record so his teacher can see what he's reading. If he wants to bring home a school book and read it, then fine, but I'm certainly not worrying about the scheme any more.

The teacher is fine with it, because he's still ticking all the right boxes and is reading at least one novel a day and I'm not on her case any more.
He's fine with it because he can read whatever he wants and is reading at his correct ability level.
I'm happy with it as he's maintaining his love of reading rather than turning it into something boring

He told me just tonight that one of the reasons that he loves reading so much is because the books seem to come alive to him. I don't ever want him to lose his enthusiasm for it.

I guess reading schemes suit some kids and not others. We're not all robots and we all learn at different levels.

Not sure why I've posted all this - perhaps to give you an idea on how to tackle some of the problems you're having. Perhaps a similar solution would help your daughter? If she doesn't want to read her school books, is it really a big deal? As long as she's reading and enjoying it, then that's the main thing.

Getting her some history books or other non fiction books is als a good way of getting her to start understanding comprehension.

You can do the same thing with your daughter's spellings as well, there is no reason why she can't be given better words to spell if this is what she's craving.

Also, have you considered starting her off learning another language or a musical instrument. These can really help stimulate bright kids and are also cool life skills to have.

milliebear00001

Hi there

Sounds like you could go one of two ways with this. Either your daughter moves up a class and spends the whole of her school career (probably) a year ahead of her peer group (you need to ask yourself if you're happy with this and if so, ask why the school don't feel it the best solution) OR you need to put pressure on the class teacher to see some evidence of how s/he is planning for your daughter's individual needs. Yes it's hard to plan for wide differentiation, but it can be done (and is part of the teacher's job description). It's still early in the year, and it may simply be that the teacher hasn't fully got to grips yet with your daughter's ability level. Either way, decide what you'd prefer and why and then be prepared to argue for it at school. Your daughter should have an Individual Education Plan as she has been designated as having special needs - ask to see a copy of it.

As a teacher myself, I think the school's reticence in moving her up a year is because some children really do suffer later on in school when they are made to feel 'different' within a class - especially at secondary school. I'm not suggesting this will happen to your daughter, but it's a possibility. The fact that she's being assessed for ASD may also make the school want to hang-fire before making a decision like moving her up a year.

Gingham_Ribbon

Zziggi, I didn't notice the part about her being assessed for ASD. In that case, please take advice before agreeing to it. I know one parent whose child was to have an assessment for autistic traits and she paid privately for an assessment by someone specialising in both autism and giftedness. It cost nearly £500 but it gave her the peace of mind that the assessment was done 'blind'. ie not by someone who'd been told to 'look for' autism. (Her daughter was found to be gifted and not autistic, though if she'd been found to be autistic, I know she would have been pleased that the assessment had been done with a clear view of her daughter.