secondary school question please

Lunar_Eclipse

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

I also disagree with your comments about grammar schools teaching to the test; the education you receive is likely to be far more rounded and less narrow than many comps that are trying to hustle as many kids through 5 A-Cs as possible.

Totally agree. Grammar schools offer the better academic education for the brightest children (because they are academically selective). It is very unusual for a bright child's parents to decline a grammar school place. I know of one person who has done this though, because their child has social issues and his current school/parents feel the comp will suit him better.

Lunar_Eclipse

jay11 wrote: »

I believe every child deserves excellent schooling, and that no child is more precious or special than any other.

I agree. Yet it seems this is asking for the impossible in the state sector at least. Those who struggle or are behaviourally challenging get a very unfair portion of teacher attention from what I see.

Lunar_Eclipse

hardpressed wrote: »

If a child needs extra tuition to get into a grammar school it's likely they'll struggle if they do get a place there. If you want them to sit the entrance exam that's fine but don't try to push them beyond their abilities.

I'm not sure I agree with this on the basis that the vast majority of children these days would have tuition, so who knows how they would do without it. If a child gets in without any tuition, then they will probably be top of the class.

LillyJ

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I agree. Yet it seems this is asking for the impossible in the state sector at least. Those who struggle or are behaviourally challenging get a very unfair portion of teacher attention from what I see.

I went to a state grammar school, so I don't think you can say "state sector".

I truly think I would have got the same results had I been at a comp throughout my schooling.

I was a struggle and was behaviourally challenging because I was "gifted" (hate that word) and no one (especially not at the grammar) knew how to handle me. It isn't just the less academic children that are the ones causing the problems.

I passed the 12+ (as it was in those days in Bucks) with flying colours but I am sure I caused a nuisance to other pupils in my class.

My experiences of a grammar are that they teach to the lowest common denominator as they assume everyone is bright, which, frankly, they aren't. The truly bright pupils don't get pushed at all.

LillyJ

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I'm not sure I agree with this on the basis that the vast majority of children these days would have tuition, so who knows how they would do without it. If a child gets in without any tuition, then they will probably be top of the class.

I didn't have any tuition, although a lot of my class did. I think it is ridiculous, as you shouldn't be at a grammar if you can't pass the 11+ on your own.
Just compounds the middle class issues there already are in the selection process.

Lunar_Eclipse

LillyJ wrote: »

My experiences of a grammar are that they teach to the lowest common denominator as they assume everyone is bright, which, frankly, they aren't. The truly bright pupils don't get pushed at all.

I agree with everything you have said. This sums up my experience of state schooling so far, yet at a primary level (albeit in the country's leading state junior school and an Ofsted outstanding Beacon infant school). The lowest common denominator rules; and sadly it's very low indeed, even in a highly professional middle class blah blah area. It's all to do with Govt targets and funding. But I honestly think my children deserve better than the Maths/Literacy factories they are at.

There is so much to say for homeschooling.:D

Lunar_Eclipse

LillyJ wrote: »

I didn't have any tuition, although a lot of my class did. I think it is ridiculous, as you shouldn't be at a grammar if you can't pass the 11+ on your own.
Just compounds the middle class issues there already are in the selection process.

I know and agree. But it's the reality.

Sadly no Grammar option where we live so no personal moral dilemnas to deal with in our house.

jockettuk

at year 3 my life and my daughters life was all sorted and the future looked all mapped out then hey presto we divorced and eventually i met someone else with whom i moved away to be with.. Held on till she finished her primary school education in the same school but would be moving to a secondary school different area who had 11+ but as my education department didnt my daughter didnt sit it. Im glad she didnt as to be truthful i dont like the grammer schools here .. the kids i know who go to it might have been clever at yr 6 but in yr 9 they struggling big time but they dont seem to be getting the help they need.. also when i did look round these schools (intending to let her sit the 12+) i wasnt impressed with the kids impressions of there schools as the other local schools the kids were enthusiastic about there schools. nothing more truthful than how kids see there enviroment..

kids will learn whatever school they attend if they want to learn. and our little darlings are wonderful untill they hit the teenage years and you either get a learner or a moaner me i got a learner my friends kids who were angels at primary school are now the do i have to kids

Lunar_Eclipse

jockettuk wrote: »

kids will learn whatever school they attend if they want to learn.

they hit the teenage years and you either get a learner or a moaner me i got a learner my friends kids who were angels at primary school are now the do i have to kids

I'm not sure about the first comment. A lot of kids get distracted and heavily influenced by their environment and peer group attitude. Most children do not want to stand out, especially in the teenage years where being a sheep is the safest place to be. Top of the class is not a safe place for many. Additionally girls can be intimidated by boys in certain subjects, or are quite simply more interested in boys than Maths (and who can blame them!)

My girls are only 8 and 7 so I have the joy of the teenage years to come! But already, whilst enthusiastic and very high achieving in school, I have a moaner when it comes to homework. And since she gets far too much IMO (reading/times tables & spellings would suffice), I can empathise, but am careful not to voice my thoughts and just get on with the battles. But it sometimes worries me that she may get turned off before it actually becomes "important" and thus she/they might under achieve when it counts because of the hot housing early on. But then at least they are getting an education, the children are well behaved and they enjoy school to a sufficient degree. My parents didn't give this stuff any thought whatsoever. Anyhow, off to deliver youngest to her academic factory now ......

moneypooh

My children go to a local comprehensive and living in a rural area we only had the choice of 2. Both had similar ofsted and exam results. Their school isn't one of the best generally BUT they do cater for each child. They range from children that haven't qualified to take SATs to 'gifted and talented' students. They are streamed in each subject to take the student to their full potential. This means they take their GCSEs when they are ready, some are taking subjects from year 7, or waiting until year 11. It also means that their education works for them individually which stops the problem in grammar schools where the standard has to be the same for every subject. I have two children at this school and they certainly have been encouraged to follow their talents and have been supported in subjects they are OK in. Although it's not known as an educationally excellent school, it works with the students at all levels. All students are given the chance to gain some qualification. They have now started the new diplomas to ensure that the less academic students can get a good start in life. Disruptive students are removed from classes and are taught in special classes, more suited to their needs.

I think it's very hard for parents to choose schools, exam results aren't always the best way of judging a schools performance. Most comprehensives do have very mixed ability students and it's the way they cater for all students needs is what we should be looking for.

I am always upset when people say to me it's a shame they couldn't go to a grammar school (as we don't have them), as if they are getting a second rate education. I believe they aren't, I have never met such enthusiastic teachers and both my children are shining in their completely different subjects. My daughter gained a GCSE in French in year 9, 2 years early. She will gain at least another 2 in year 10. How can this be second rate? My son will be looking to do subjects early too.
They have such an extended range of extra-curricular activities that ofsted rated it as excellent.

I went to a grammar school so I have seen both sides now; and if you can get a school where your children are treated as individuals then they'll grow and achieve their full potential where ever it is.