secondary school question please

betterlife

hi all, i know im a bit ahead of myself with this:o , but after speaking to my sons new year teacher she has inform me that now he is in year 3 they are put in 1 of 4 groups in class, she is very impress with his learning and attitude and he is in top sets for everything:T . (very proud mum:D ) this is something that i have often thought about as i think his education is very important and that he be given the best chances available to him. so my questions are with regards to the eleven plus and secondary schools. what are the advantages of grammer school over comprehensive, do they teach differently, what term do they take there eleven plus, should i ask my child nearer the time if he wants to do it or should i just put him in for it if it is recommended by his teacher, am i to early to start helping him for it he will be 8 in a couple of weeks so i realise it is 3 years away but would it be wise to start early rather than crame. thankyou in advance:p , i hope you dont think im being stupid i just want to give him as well as my other children the best start in life which i think is a good education x

Oldernotwiser

As someone who benefited enormously from a grammar education, I would heartily recommend it for any really academic child. Expectations are high and disruption is low and they often have the best teachers. Although it wasn't the case in my time, I believe that many people nowadays pay for additional tutoring nearer the time, so it may be worth putting some money aside now so that it's available when the time comes.

milliebear00001

betterlife wrote: »

hi all, i know im a bit ahead of myself with this:o , but after speaking to my sons new year teacher she has inform me that now he is in year 3 they are put in 1 of 4 groups in class, she is very impress with his learning and attitude and he is in top sets for everything:T . (very proud mum:D ) this is something that i have often thought about as i think his education is very important and that he be given the best chances available to him. so my questions are with regards to the eleven plus and secondary schools. what are the advantages of grammer school over comprehensive, do they teach differently, what term do they take there eleven plus, should i ask my child nearer the time if he wants to do it or should i just put him in for it if it is recommended by his teacher, am i to early to start helping him for it he will be 8 in a couple of weeks so i realise it is 3 years away but would it be wise to start early rather than crame. thankyou in advance:p , i hope you dont think im being stupid i just want to give him as well as my other children the best start in life which i think is a good education x

Hi there

I'm assuming you live in an area which still has the 11plus? There aren't many of them left, nor LAs with grammars that aren't independent. If you are in an area with grammars, the main difference is that they select on ability (usually) so you'll find they concentrate more on the academic achievement of children. Usually, there is more homework, more testing etc. This suits some children, but not others. You will also probably find there are fewer opportunities for pastoral subjects as these can be squeezed due to the concentration on academic subjects. You might also find that in some (but not all) grammars, there is less focus on transferable skills and the links between subjects, and more concentration on teaching subjects discretely, and teaching 'to the test' - it can lead to a narrower curriculum in SOME grammars.

As with any school, you need to visit and ask questions and to do this, you need to be clear about what you want out of a school, and what is going to suit your son best.

By the way, the previous statement that they 'often have the best teachers' seems hard to prove, sweeping generalisation to me! Grammar schools often require more of teachers in terms of extra-curricular activities etc, and so they can be less popular with time-pressed teachers. They also however, tend to have better behaviour, and sometimes (but not always) smaller classes, and those are advantages in any classroom!

Oldernotwiser

milliebear00001 wrote: »

By the way, the previous statement that they 'often have the best teachers' seems hard to prove, sweeping generalisation to me! Grammar schools often require more of teachers in terms of extra-curricular activities etc, and so they can be less popular with time-pressed teachers. They also however, tend to have better behaviour, and sometimes (but not always) smaller classes, and those are advantages in any classroom!

It was a bit of a sweeping statement, but I did say "often". I think that the majority of teachers would rather teach intelligent, well motivated children and not to have to spend their time in "crowd control" so grammars can normally pick and choose who they take on. Extra curricular activities can also be a joy in this situation where you're not stressed by violence and behavioural problems.

I also disagree with your comments about grammar schools teaching to the test; the education you receive is likely to be far more rounded and less narrow than many comps that are trying to hustle as many kids through 5 A-Cs as possible.

jay11_2

I think it's important to look at all the schools in your area, categorising according to grammar/not grammar is quite narrow. All schools have their strengths and weaknesses, some grammars may have loads of extra-curricular activities and others may not. As will secondary schools, it's important to find a school that's 'right' for your child, supports enough, no more pressure than they can cope with, and so on.

My children are also very bright but when I was looking for secondary schools I looked at many aspects. I started with ofsted reports, particularly the 'pastoral care' and 'behaviour' aspects, because I want them to feel happy and supported above all else. I then looked at catchment areas, gcse results; whether schools had a 6th form; what size the school was; and whether my child could travel there reasonably easily, independently.

This gave me an 'ideal' school and a short list of two others I would be 'okay' with. Luckily they got places at my first choice, which is a church school, and are doing extremely well.

gemmalouanna

If you go down the grammar school route please let your son get in off his own merit, obviously help but don't push too much

I know of several people who spend the year before their application/entrance exam preparing/making their kids practise endlessly so they seem really bright but now they are really struggling to keep up at the school they have got into.

gemmalouanna

jay11 wrote: »

I started with ofsted reports, particularly the 'pastoral care' and 'behaviour' aspects, because I want them to feel happy and supported above all else.

Yes look at ofsted reports but I think trying to find out from parents who have children at schools you are considering will be more revealing/helpful.

Eg. a certain school near me had ofsted and sent their badly behaved children on a 'trip' for a few days to get them out if school for the duration of the inspection - the school came out good in terms of behaviour as the few idiots who sometimes spoil it for others were not there

milliebear00001

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It was a bit of a sweeping statement, but I did say "often". I think that the majority of teachers would rather teach intelligent, well motivated children and not to have to spend their time in "crowd control" so grammars can normally pick and choose who they take on. Extra curricular activities can also be a joy in this situation where you're not stressed by violence and behavioural problems.

I also disagree with your comments about grammar schools teaching to the test; the education you receive is likely to be far more rounded and less narrow than many comps that are trying to hustle as many kids through 5 A-Cs as possible.

I accept that comps can also teach to the test, but Grammars survive because of their good academic record, and this has to be maintained at all costs. However much comps have to get their 5 GCESs, Grammars feel that pressure more because they don't tend to have the 'excuse' of behavioural and socio-economic issues that many secondaries have. The narrowing of the curriculum can also be an issue because of the diversity issues Grammars tend to have. They have an overwhelmingly white, middle class intake that may or may not, be an issue for parents. This unavoidably impacts on the kinds of experiences the children are exposed to.

There are of course, many comps doing extremely well academically and ALL schools have 'intelligent, well-motivated children'. These will tend to flourish wherever they go to school because they tend to have enough back up outside.

milliebear00001

gemmalouanna wrote: »

Yes look at ofsted reports but I think trying to find out from parents who have children at schools you are considering will be more revealing/helpful.

Eg. a certain school near me had ofsted and sent their badly behaved children on a 'trip' for a few days to get them out if school for the duration of the inspection - the school came out good in terms of behaviour as the few idiots who sometimes spoil it for others were not there

Ha - that made me smile - it happens much more than you might think, but a lot less than it used to as schools now only get a few days to prepare after the dreaded 'Ofsted call'!

Oldernotwiser

milliebear00001 wrote: »

I accept that comps can also teach to the test, but Grammars survive because of their good academic record, and this has to be maintained at all costs. However much comps have to get their 5 GCESs, Grammars feel that pressure more because they don't tend to have the 'excuse' of behavioural and socio-economic issues that many secondaries have. The narrowing of the curriculum can also be an issue because of the diversity issues Grammars tend to have. They have an overwhelmingly white, middle class intake that may or may not, be an issue for parents. This unavoidably impacts on the kinds of experiences the children are exposed to.

I have to say that academic standards are so low nowadays that any decent grammar doesn't need to teach to the test to achieve high levels of A and A* grades. I think that we mean different things by narrowing the curriculum; I mean things like reading books that aren't on the syllabus and reading around the subject rather than having a veneer of multi culturalism. As far as race goes, I was looking at the website for my old grammar school (in Kingston) and I was surprised at the number of children from ethnic minorities who attend; I'd've said a far higher proportion than the population of the catchment area.

gemmalouanna

milliebear00001 wrote: »

Ha - that made me smile - it happens much more than you might think, but a lot less than it used to as schools now only get a few days to prepare after the dreaded 'Ofsted call'!

I had my first ofsted a year ago and made sure I did nothing different - the way I view it is that I cannot work much harder so if I am not good enough as I am then I will look for another career hehe - in the end I was observed teaching a lesson that I planned over the summer hols looked at the lesson plan the night before and it went fine