lowest oil prices for 12 months!! why still the increase?

mech_2

logie28 wrote: »

irrational??? surely you have a better argument than that???


surely you must work in the industry to be a sympathiser.

Or maybe he just bothered to check out the facts before having a rant?
https://www.theice.com/publicdocs/markerIndex/IPE_Natural_Gas_Futures_Chart20.png

The origin of my thread is neither irrational nor in factual. I'm simply asking why the energy companies haven't issued a statement regarding falling prices, or acted upon them.

Possibly because there aren't any yet. How can they issue a statement about something that hasn't happened? I've kept an eye on prices. Wholesale gas prices are now down to about the same levels they were in August when the retail price rises first started. The market peaked again and is now heading back down. Maybe prices will fall back to last year's levels by the new year if the current downward trend continues. A retail price cut would lag a couple of months behind, as the energy companies have to make back the losses they incurred by delaying the price rises so long.

Would be great publicity and marketing. After all they are quick enough to speak when market prices rise.

So are the public. I didn't hear people making a big fuss when retail prices were going down.

As stated by other posters the silence is deafening.

Seen as you cant construct an argument or debate with your comments ( look at your latest post) .. dont bother to reply.

I'm not here to argue with morons so, will not be responding to your worthless responses..

I cant fathom people out who come on this forum praising these companies and saying they dont take the p£$S

They extract the urine in multiple ways, but this isn't one of them.

Wishful thinking about what the wholesale market ought be doing is getting a bit tiresome. Check out the real figures for day ahead gas prices here: http://www.upstreamonline.com/market_data/?id=markets_gas

As I type it says it's 48p/them, down from 55.5p the day before. I've been watching it and it has spent most of the year above that. That page also tells you the price one year ago: 36.15p/them

In the spring we saw price rises of around 15% and additional price rises last month of around 30%. 36.15 multiplied by 115% multiplied by 130% is 54.04p/them. Very similar to what the prices are at at the moment, except last year the prices had already been lower that that all year, whereas this year they have been higher than that most of the time. Unless prices continue to fall for at least the next month, I don't see a case for any announcements.

You could also try this link for prices for gas futures:
https://www.theice.com/marketdata/ukNaturalGasView/ukNatGasWaveView.jsp

Its money saving expert.. the clue is in the name...

Where is the money to be saved here? It's a bit late really. If you had taken Martin's advice earlier in the year, you would have got a fixed tariff before the price rises and wouldn't have been affected.

Plushchris

moonrakerz wrote: »

"Why oh why do we put up with the increase of fuel prices?" - which planet are you living on ? my local Esso station and Morrisons have cut their petrol prices 3 times in the last few weeks !
Energy prices in general will also start to fall - unless of course you have been spooked into signing up to one of these phoney capped deals !

Hmm, I think you mean one of those phoney Fixed price deals, capped deals will go down if priced do drop considerably.

Common mistake people thinking capped and fixed are the same thing when they arent.

Fixed = Wont go up or down (hence fixed)

Capped = Wont go up but could go down (and if priced do drop the tariff then caps at the lower level)

1carminestocky

Mech, you STILL continue to flout the forum rules (as laid down the site owner) by not declaring the fact that you derive your livelihood from the energy industry IN EVERY POST. Please sort it out, it's not difficult. If you want to see how it SHOULD be done, check out WhistleBlower's posts. He includes full details of his employment in his signature thereby negating the need to type it out every time. More cynical people then me would no doubt suggest that your continuing refusal to come clean about where you work casts doubts on your reasons for being here.

PS You said:

Maybe prices will fall back to last year's levels by the new year if the current downward trend continues.

I'm assuming you mean there is potential for price cuts in the New Year? So why no press releases from the energy companies about this? It would certainly lighten the mood of the people. It works both ways, we had countless warnings of potential huge increases a few months ago so why not statements about potential decreases? Could it be that for them to do so would destroy the nice little earner that fixed deals have no doubt become?

logie28

[quote=mech;14887779
Possibly because there aren't any yet. How can they issue a statement about something that hasn't happened?
[COLOR=red]!!!!!!? prices peaked $147, currently $97 (ish)no change in price there then!!!!! [/color]


The market peaked again and is now heading back down.
no s$&t Sherlock.. quite dramatically if you look at the figures..

Maybe prices will fall back to last year's levels by the new year if the current downward trend continues. A retail price cut would lag a couple of months behind, as the energy companies have to make back the losses they incurred by delaying the price rises so long.
show me the figures where energy companies have been
running at a loss.
I didn't hear people making a big fuss when retail prices were going down.
I did , was on the news most days, hey look I'm doing it now
and people still defend these companies and justify there theft.
They extract the urine in multiple ways, but this isn't one of them.



Unless prices continue to fall for at least the next month, I don't see a case for any announcements.
I do, the market is suppose to be competitive since the monopoly
was broken. Hence competition should be announcing possible price
cuts if the market follows its current trend.

Where is the money to be saved here? It's a bit late really. If you had taken Martin's advice earlier in the year, you would have got a fixed tariff before the price rises and wouldn't have been affected.[/quote]
I dont feel the need to get a fixed tariff and fall into the trap. I was on CE5,
now I'm on CE6, Why should i fix my price when market prices are falling.
Martins advice was in fact, (once all the early deals had stopped) if you cant afford possible massive price rises
fix. If you can afford to gamble on prices rising/ falling dont.

How can millions stuck on a fixed deal till up to 2012 save any money, IF the markets continue to fall. The big six will reel them in with scaremongering tacticts. Probably announce price cuts after pressure. leaving millions with huge tariff rates and expensive release penalties.

Doesn't look like fair competition to me!!

michaels

I am not employed or in any way connected to the energy industry.

I just want to thank Mech for his post above, well argued with links to relevant statistics. The forward pricing of gas would appear to suggest that prices need to rise further if anything when the energy suppliers forward buy the gas for us to use this winter.

Previously the BBC had always quoted gas prices as being 'linked' to the oil price which no doubt made me and others hope that the falling oil price would also deliver falling gas prices - the evidence shown my Mech shows this is not always the case.

It is amazing that our gas is so much more expensive than in North America - it suggests that there is lots more scope for transporting LNG?

Finally addressing one of the other comments on here, I can't see that a possible fall in prices over the coming months that hasn't happened yet (and may not if there is a cold winter or disruption in supply from Russia) should be used by energy companies to promise price cuts - surely it would be irresponsible to suggest prices might fall in future if they are far from certain to.

1carminestocky

michaels wrote: »

I am not employed or in any way connected to the energy industry.

I just want to thank Mech for his post above, well argued with links to relevant statistics. The forward pricing of gas would appear to suggest that prices need to rise further if anything when the energy suppliers forward buy the gas for us to use this winter.

Previously the BBC had always quoted gas prices as being 'linked' to the oil price which no doubt made me and others hope that the falling oil price would also deliver falling gas prices - the evidence shown my Mech shows this is not always the case.

It is amazing that our gas is so much more expensive than in North America - it suggests that there is lots more scope for transporting LNG?

Finally addressing one of the other comments on here, I can't see that a possible fall in prices over the coming months that hasn't happened yet (and may not if there is a cold winter or disruption in supply from Russia) should be used by energy companies to promise price cuts - surely it would be irresponsible to suggest prices might fall in future if they are far from certain to.

Energy-company employee Mech has himself/herself previously accepted that Gas prices ARE INDEED linked to oil prices (although, and I quote, 'loosely' :rolleyes: ), so what's it to be? No link or a link? The cynical would argue that the link only appears to be operational when the price of oil is increasing. I know that certain 'insiders' will no doubt try and prove I'm talking rollox but the fact is it's by no means only me in the country who feels this way. I, and I expect MILLIONS of others, are wholly sceptical of the energy company's motives and modus operandi.

mech_2

logie28 wrote: »

mech wrote: »

Possibly because there aren't any yet. How can they issue a statement about something that hasn't happened?

!!!!!!? prices peaked $147, currently $97 (ish)no change in price there then!!!!!

Your heating runs on crude oil and you pay for it in dollars?

The market peaked again and is now heading back down.

no s$&t Sherlock.. quite dramatically if you look at the figures..

Well I showed you the figures for wholesale gas usage. Did you look at them at all? Or do you suffer from the same problems 1carminestocky seems to suffer from? Anything that challenges his imagined version of the truth is invisible to him. (Oh, and everyone in the entire world works for energy companies... He's a certifiable nutcase).

A retail price cut would lag a couple of months behind, as the energy companies have to make back the losses they incurred by delaying the price rises so long.

show me the figures where energy companies have been running at a loss.

Show me the figures that say they haven't.

I applied the percentage retail price rises typical this year to last year's wholesale price and showed that the result was similar to the current price. I also pointed out that this is after the price has come down this year, whereas last year it had already risen. This is all the evidence you need if you are interested in the truth rather than just making noise.

I didn't hear people making a big fuss when retail prices were going down.

I did , was on the news most days, hey look I'm doing it now and people still defend these companies and justify there theft.

"Down", I said. Not up. You spent all of the 1990s praising the energy industry for constant price reductions did you?

They extract the urine in multiple ways, but this isn't one of them.

Unless prices continue to fall for at least the next month, I don't see a case for any announcements.

I do, the market is suppose to be competitive since the monopoly was broken. Hence competition should be announcing possible price cuts if the market follows its current trend.

Well as I said, that might happen in a couple of months if such market falls actually materialise. You will just have to be patient.

Where is the money to be saved here?

It's a bit late really. If you had taken Martin's advice earlier in the year, you would have got a fixed tariff before the price rises and wouldn't have been affected.

I dont feel the need to get a fixed tariff and fall into the trap. I was on CE5, now I'm on CE6, Why should i fix my price when market prices are falling.

As I said. It's a bit late now.

Martins advice was in fact, (once all the early deals had stopped) if you cant afford possible massive price rises fix. If you can afford to gamble on prices rising/ falling dont.

In other words, it's not clear what will happen next. Therefore we can't really expect the energy companies to make any announcements.

How can millions stuck on a fixed deal till up to 2012 save any money, IF the markets continue to fall. The big six will reel them in with scaremongering tacticts. Probably announce price cuts after pressure. leaving millions with huge tariff rates and expensive release penalties.

Well don't fix now. As I said it's a bit late to take advantage of the market now as there's no definite indication of what will happen next. My money is on price falls in the spring based on what oil prices are at now, but my guess is no better than anybody else's.

Doesn't look like fair competition to me!!

What has competition got to do with it? There are lots of energy companies to switch between. They all buy from the same wholesale marketplace. If you switched to the cheapest you are already taking advantage of competition. Plus, if you switch away when customer service is bad then that's competition working as well. Most people don't care about customer service until something goes wrong though - they just want the cheapest.

Plushchris

mech wrote: »

Plus, if you switch away when customer service is bad then that's competition working as well. Most people don't care about customer service until something goes wrong though - they just want the cheapest.

LOL yeah, if everyone cared about customer service some on here would say we should all be with Utility Warehouse, but lets not go there on this thread shall we

Cardew

It seems if you put forward any rational argument in the Utilities forum these days, as Mech and moonrakerz have done in this thread, you are apparently siding with the Devil.

Ofgem's recent report largely gave the Utility companies a clean bill of health, and even the tabloid media had a hard job to find something where they were at fault, as opposed to suggestions for some cross-subsidies.

So Ofgem is attacked as useless, toothless etc.

The all-party Parliamentary Committe on the Energy Industry largely did the same.

Isn't there some forum on MSE where people can simply have a rant and get lots of people to agree?

logie28

Many countries around the world pay less than the u.k for gas and electric.
the WORLD market on these commodities is basically the same.

Many people will really struggle to afford energy bills this year.

Unfortunately some elderly WILL once again die, deciding to heat or eat.

These companies ARE in a position now to lower the price for many vulnerable people. Look at all the different tariffs.

The regulatory body overseeing these companies also mentioned these companies are ripping off the vulnerable.

The government has immediately put pressure on these companies to pass savings on to companies immediately. Just after the government ruled out windfall taxes on these greedy unethical thieves.

Any one who sympathises with these including the shareholders who wish for a cold winter for huge dividends are a disgrace.(in my opinion)

Home fuel is not a luxury in the UK . It is a NESSESITY...

Dont give me the c£rap about oil prices not affecting gas prices! It is all we have heard the big six spout for the last 12 months..

Here, here for our elderly and vulnerable this winter... GOOD LUCK.