Asked for Dental NHS Scale and Polish.Told "Go to Hygienist at £25 extra"

Apollonia

boozercruiser wrote: »

I could answer Apollonias rather frivalous pap.
But WHY BOTHER?:p

(Font size of quoted post reduced so as not to annoy other users! )

As I said: DELIBERATELY OBNOXIOUS

It's clear now that you know exactly what you are doing - no wonder so many of the discussions you contribute to end up with other users 'picking on you'.
How many times now have you ended up whining that there must be some sort of hidden agenda by 'those with vested interests'?

Plain and simple; you are rude, have no idea of forum etiquette and ignore any information or posts that do not agree with your ill-informed points of view.

Most of this has been pointed out to you before with varying degrees of politeness but you don't appear to learn from experience.

I can't make up my mind whether you are deliberately trying to wind people up because it amuses you or that you really are this pig-ignorant.

Probably the second choice given your background and internet history.

boozercruiser

Apollonia wrote: »

(Font size of quoted post reduced so as not to annoy other users! )

As I said: DELIBERATELY OBNOXIOUS

It's clear now that you know exactly what you are doing - no wonder so many of the discussions you contribute to end up with other users 'picking on you'.
How many times now have you ended up whining that there must be some sort of hidden agenda by 'those with vested interests'?

Plain and simple; you are rude, have no idea of forum etiquette and ignore any information or posts that do not agree with your ill-informed points of view.

Most of this has been pointed out to you before with varying degrees of politeness but you don't appear to learn from experience.

I can't make up my mind whether you are deliberately trying to wind people up because it amuses you or that you really are this pig-ignorant.

Probably the second choice given your background and internet history.

Cut and Pasted.....

"Since I started this thread I have been detested by the vested interest brigade here who see me as some sort of enemy because I am exposing some Dentists who are not doing work that they should be doing as per NHS Contract and regulations.

It's a good job that.....Frankly My Dear....I Don't Give A Damn...isn't it"?;)

boozercruiser

noogle wrote: »

To update, I was told to go ahead and make an appointment for NHS treatment only, and speak with the dentist while I'm there about NHS cleaning - she told me though that the private hygenist does a deep clean (which I assume is what I need) and the NHS doesn't.

So then noogle....can you tell us what the final outcome was?

Did your pocket take a deep clean?:)

megatron33

So i made an appointment with an NHS dentist after 10 years without a dental visit......terrible i know but also i have vowed to sort it out!

didn't know any charges or what to expect so very wet behind the ears but i paid the £17.50 and had a brief checkup and xrays. Dentist said my mouth was fine but could do with seeing the hygienist...although they couldn't identify the cause of the sensitivity i have now had for about 18 months :eek:

So on departure i booked an appointment with said hygienist and visited last week. That came at a price of £30 and I had a 20 minute slot. Unfortunately she could not finish the cleaning in the allotted time so i need another trip and have been told it will cost a further £30. Asked why and was told it was due to being in there for the whole 20 mins. Would you say this is about right or am i being "done"?

cant help but feel it is the later. I mean if i charge someone to clean their car and do half a job, i wouldn't expect them to pay again to do the other half???

jugglebug

It isn't unusual for dentists to be really bad at estimating how long it will take a hygienist to carry out the work.
Your hygienist then had a decision to make.
Do a so so job in the time allotted knowing full well it wouldn't achieve the full outcome desired
or
Be honest and tell you that your level of need is higher than what the dentist said.
This isn't a NHS / private argument, more a clinical one.

I am not going through the NHS / private thing again, This thread has done it to death and your answers are all in the pages above.
But if you NEED it then there are some questions you need to be asking of your dental practice.

boozercruiser

megatron33 wrote: »

So i made an appointment with an NHS dentist after 10 years without a dental visit......terrible i know but also i have vowed to sort it out!

didn't know any charges or what to expect so very wet behind the ears but i paid the £17.50 and had a brief checkup and xrays. Dentist said my mouth was fine but could do with seeing the hygienist...although they couldn't identify the cause of the sensitivity i have now had for about 18 months :eek:

So on departure i booked an appointment with said hygienist and visited last week. That came at a price of £30 and I had a 20 minute slot. Unfortunately she could not finish the cleaning in the allotted time so i need another trip and have been told it will cost a further £30. Asked why and was told it was due to being in there for the whole 20 mins. Would you say this is about right or am i being "done"?

cant help but feel it is the later. I mean if i charge someone to clean their car and do half a job, i wouldn't expect them to pay again to do the other half???

It looks to me that you are another person Ripped Off by what I call 'The Great Hygienist Con'.

I agree with Jugglebug that the post has been done to death and you can find all your answers, including insults directed at me by reading back on the post.

Cheers;)

Boozercruiser.

Billieblob

Just to throw in my fourpenn'th.

It would be interesting to analyse how many dentists thought an S&P was clinically necessary before the new contract in 2006 (ie when they got paid an addtional fee for providing one) and how those same dentists have changed their opinion since.

As we all know (from reading through this thread) screening for gum disease in this country is by use of the BPE.

Visit the British Society for Periodontology Members and Policy page for further info (sorry as a new member I can't post links)

Any score higher than 0 results in clinically necessary treatment (oral hygiene instruction or prophylaxis (aka cleaning/scaling and polishing)).

I am a private dentist and I do a BPE on every adult patient at every routine visit. I have fewer than 1% dentate patients who consistently score 0 in all sextants.

Dentists have a duty of care to their patients, not to the NHS. If dentists are unable to provide the quality of care expected of them on the NHS they should terminate their contract. I did.

Discuss.

Billieblob

Additional stirring (purely in the interest of balanced argument :A)

Please be aware the the £16.50 (or whatever the fee is at present) is not all that the dentist receives for a Band 1 course of treatment. The fee the dentist receives ranges from approx £17 to £41 depending on the practice (according to NASDA - National Association of Specialist Dental Accountants). In addition to this the NHS dentist receives superannuation payments (the NHS pension scheme, which is arguably the best in the world). Also the NHS dentist will receive reimbursement of business rates (depending on the proportion of NHS work undertaken). This additional money comes from the government via taxpayers.

Private dentists gain all their income (from which they also need to subsidise their pension and business rates) from their patients (who, generally, are also taxpayers).

According to NASDA both turnover and profit from NHS practices was higher for the previous 2 financial years than their private counterparts.

Private dentists do charge more per patient than an NHS dentist, but please bear in mind that the NHS is a SERVICE which should be providing you with quality care. Don't feel that just because NHS dentists are underfunded for the treatment they carry out (which they are -don't misunderstand me I have NOTHING against NHS dentists, I think most of them are incredibly dedicated and caring) that you have to accept the situation, nor think that NHS dentists will starve if they take more than 60 seconds to do a check up!

Again; Discuss.

welshdent

Discuss eh? Where did anyone say the 16.50 was what the dentist received? I certainly didn't. I actually receive less than that :-( but then I'm a lowly associate on a 40:60 split. IMO you are misleading about your representation of bpe scores. A score of 1 does not indicate scaling is needed and beyond that we have already agreed that 2 is scaling and 3 and 4 warrant sub gingival debridement et al. So my discussion points are that either you are stirring (your word) incorrectly a dead horse debate or b) you have not trawled through all the pages on here where all of the other dentists acknowledge that the dentists duty is to the patient. They have indicated where the dentist is in the wrong or the patient is incorrect. I have no idea what was done on the old contract as I was not out of Vt when it came in. I have never deprived anyone of clinically necessary treatment. The problem is it's dentists like me that are penalised with this system not the - shall we say less principled amongst us. We have largely agreed with you tbh but you do seem to have posted rather negatively

boozercruiser

Billieblob wrote: »

Just to throw in my fourpenn'th.

It would be interesting to analyse how many dentists thought an S&P was clinically necessary before the new contract in 2006 (ie when they got paid an addtional fee for providing one) and how those same dentists have changed their opinion since.

As we all know (from reading through this thread) screening for gum disease in this country is by use of the BPE.

Visit the British Society for Periodontology Members and Policy page for further info (sorry as a new member I can't post links)

Any score higher than 0 results in clinically necessary treatment (oral hygiene instruction or prophylaxis (aka cleaning/scaling and polishing)).

I am a private dentist and I do a BPE on every adult patient at every routine visit. I have fewer than 1% dentate patients who consistently score 0 in all sextants.

Dentists have a duty of care to their patients, not to the NHS. If dentists are unable to provide the quality of care expected of them on the NHS they should terminate their contract. I did.

Discuss.

Well Hello Billieblob. What a lovely handle and your two inputs are a very interesting and informative addition:T to a post which has unfortunately been turned into a personnal battle of the vested interests.

Doing my best to not go into a rant I find that your info.......

"As we all know (from reading through this thread) screening for gum disease in this country is by use of the BPE.

Visit the British Society for Periodontology Members and Policy page for further info (sorry as a new member I can't post links)

Any score higher than 0 results in clinically necessary treatment (oral hygiene instruction or prophylaxis (aka cleaning/scaling and polishing))."

And of course I make the point again that the NHS Dentist should be carrying out this work under his NHS contract which from your info is not as bad as some make out.

When I sat in my Denticare practice recently my Dentist was way behind on time so I had to wait a while. Sitting there I counted an endless stream of people who where directed to the top floor and the Hygienist at £30 an extra pop.

I thought to myself "Poor suckers....that would have been me only I challanged (I cant get my spell checker working, and I don't think I have spelt that right..have I?) her when she said......you have gum disease and should see the Hygienist".

To me this 'scam' is just part of the Rip Off Britain we hear so much about now.:mad:
Anyway....nice one M8 and thanks again:beer: