Icelandic Banks - The thread for OFFSHORE savers

RHStone

donal_f wrote: »

I'm in the same boat - requested a BACS transfer on Monday. But I wouldn't beat yourself up about it - I haven't seen anyone on the board who has actually seen the funds come through from a transfer (BACS or CHAP)made this week from Kaupthing IoM? All the other comments are about transfers made with Kaupthing IoM this week that did not reach the receiving bank?

Has anyone received the funds from a Kaupthing IoM transfer made this week??

Made transfer From KSF(IOM) by BACS on 6th - Arrived in my account on 7th!

donal_f

So - it looks like Kaupthing EDGE has been bought out by ING? I'm assuming this is only the UK bank and does not include the IOM bank?

occamsrazor

donal_f wrote: »

So - it looks like Kaupthing EDGE has been bought out by ING? I'm assuming this is only the UK bank and does not include the IOM bank?

Unfortunately correct.

bblair

Hello All.

I'm new to this community and wanted to make a contribution. I'm a frustrated depositor like most of you. I haven't read every post, but first wanted to thank everyone for their input, information, and suggestions. At this difficult time, any information and suggestions are helpful.

I've reflected on this matter for the past 24 hours and have a few suggestions that may (or may not) be helpful, but wanted to get feedback from this group. Apologies in advance if this repeats some of the earlier posts:

1. We need to first make sure that Iceland (Kaupthing management and Govt) that we expect IOM claims to rank pari passu with those of domestic Icelanders. I would hope our liquidator will carry that message, but in any event, I think as a political matter that the Manx govt should immediatlely send that message.

2. If Iceland allows domestic depositors to effectively empty the coffers while subsidiaries are essentially frozen out because of receivership, then I would say (apart from being unfair) there is a breach of fiduciary duty here that needs to be pursued. I think this is at the bottom of the Brit govts position, and again, perhaps we could ask the Manx govt to join London in that petition.

3. Re fiduciary duty. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that it is not always acceptable to hide behind shelter of corporate limited liability. When the parent company essentially treats the subsid as its own, it is said to have pierced the corporate veil. My rationale here is that if Kaupthing Iceland has pierced the corporate veil by willy nilly transfering assets out of IOM to benefit only Iceland depositors, then I'd say there is a legitimate legal claim here. Again, the liquidator / Max govt might be persuaded to voice this to Kaupthing parent and Iceland govt.

4. It all raised the potential for a class action lawsuit. I'm reluctant to get embroiled in this sort of thing, but it may at least be worth retaining counsel to represent the "IOM Depositor Collective" (IDC?)

5. As much as I would like to see London as an ally in this situation, it also appears as if London's actions (which were questionably justfied under anti-terror legislation) prematurely precipitated the "technical default". To this extent, there may be some liability for our predicament to be owned by the British Govt.

Thoughts?

On a personal note, to those of you - like me - who may have lost a life changing amount of money, I enourage you to take heart and not despair.

Blair

1log

Someone please help!! I live in mainland UK. I have sold my house since I was moving and put all the money in KSF IOM waiting to move. I am desperate as the 50,000 compensation even if it materialises will not be even 20% of my house money. I have little else. I was repeatedly reassured that this is a stable bank. I cannot believe that the UK will not step in to somehow rescue the situation of UK savers in IOM as IOM is a crown dependent, no central bank and has substantial deposits with the UK treasury, it is all linked financially. I know Gordon Brown is talking about mainland UK savers, but we are also hardworking UK families who have deposited in Kaupthing Singer IOM, how can we bring him to think about us lot in this terrible situation? Please suggest something I cannot sleep! We have to do something now, before this becomes history.

occamsrazor

Blair, thanks for your comments. I am not a lawyer but... the problem with any type of legal action or class-action lawsuit is Kaupthing parent has been seized by the Icelandic Govt, who are in themselves effectively bankrupt. "Iceland's banks have about $61 billion of debt, 12 times the size of the economy, according to data compiled by Bloomberg".
I think now our fate is in the hands of the Isle of Man and UK authorities, the Isle of Man liquidator, and any other bank that might agree to buyout KSF(IoM). All of which isn't particularly reassuring....

occamsrazor

1log - Your situation does sound bad indeed. I really feel for you.

All I can suggest is you call/write to your local MP straight away and ask him/her to pursue your case with the UK Treasury dept. And write to some of the organisations listed here to tell them your story:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=14845093&postcount=215

Sorry I can't offer you more advice than that... I really hope the current situation works out for everyone here - people are clearly suffering deeply from this.

occamsrazor

IOMToday has published their report of today's meeting in the Isle of Man:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Heated-scenes-at-Kaupthing-meeting.4576662.jp

Some relevant quotes:

"Delegates at the meeting were told their personal savings would be covered up to the higher value of £50,000, raised from the previous limit of £15,000 in an emergency sitting of Tynwald that morning.

John Aspden, of the Financial Supervision Commission said further details would be finalised at the Tynwald sittings on October 27 and 28.

For those with joint accounts, it was usual for each person to have a personal compensation entitlement, in this case making a total of £100,000 he said.

Savers wanting more information were told there would be staff in the bank on Friday who would be taking telephone calls and answering queries."

bblair

1log,
As much as we would all want, and with the best will in the world, I don't think anyone here can solve this problem quickly. It's a very awful situation for you to find ourselves in. The key - in my experience of situations like this - is to stay calm, try not to worry and focus on solving the problem.
You've made some good points regarding the connections between the UK and IOM. IOM is a crown dependent as you say and moreover, there was a close corporate connection between the UK and IOM kaupthing units. If nothing else, I think this further supports the argument that IOM government should align itself with Gordon Brown in his strong petitions to Iceland. What can we do? I think we should all immediately write / call the IOM government to encourage this action. (does anyone have names / tel numbers / emails?) The PM of Iceland is now taking a more concilliatory tone with the UK in this matter, if the IOM govt joins in this dialogue, we might get some meaningful progress.
Get some sleep, and remember that worry is a down payment on all the s**t that never happens. It's gonna be ok.
Blair

UKExpat1

Bblair

I agree with your points but we may also need to aggressively pursue the class action route. I'm not sure how this works in the UK/IOM but in the US the legal firm works on a no win/no fee basis but takes about a third of the final settlement. Obviously this is not great but if we're getting no joy from the liquidator or compensation scheme (a small % of what I had deposited if 15 or 50K) then should be seriously considered. I have noted that one of the aggressive US firms (Cohen Milstein Hausfeld & Toll) does have a London office so may be suitable. I am also attempting to identify suitably qualified UK solicitors to act on my behalf on a tradional fee basis and will share my findings hopefully next week.

At least a high profile case will highlight the issues and put pressure on the Manx authorities to be helpful as they have a lot to lose if there's a run on all offshore banks - I am already in the process of moving other funds back to UK up to 50k guarantee and does appear you can hold national savings abroad if not via their website. I know this pays low interest and subject UK tax but with the benefit of hindsight this cost appears to be a very reasonable insurance premium for higher security of funds.

Like others I originally invested in Derbyshire Isle of Man years ago on rec of various offshore investment magazines. Whilst I did do some homework on Kaupthing and took note of the parental guarantee, I totally underestimated what a deck of cards this was.......never again!