Jamie Oliver; Ministry of Food

moanymoany

alec_eiffel wrote: »

I've not seen the show yet but I have it on to watch tonight. I've just read this article by Felicity Lawrence with her take on things -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/oct/01/foodanddrink.oliver

Oh boy, does this article hit the nail on the head. My grandmother cooked good wholesome meals, as did my two aunts. My mother didn't - or very rarely. Fortunately I was fed mostly by my grandmother. My mother was one of the can't cook/won't cooks.

What is interesting is that the working class experience is not a blanket one. I remember having a meal with a neighbour as a child. We were all working class. She gave me burnt boiled potatoes in tinned chicken soup. My mother often gave me bread and salt water gravy - salt water thickened with flour and coloured with burnt sugar. Yet my two aunties cooked proper food - cheap cuts/offal etc. There were in the 50's and there are now working class people who eat proper food. Maybe it is something passed through families, it would seem most likely.

In the 50's/60's/70's women like this would rarely exist. Their babies would have been adopted and they would have gone back to their lives and work. There was no housing for them, no benefits. Most families would refuse to let their daughters and their child live with them. The idea that they could live in such a lovely house and live on Government money would have seemed outrageous.

Single mothers back then were widows or had been divorced. What we see on this programme is a new phenomenon. The idea of making it possible for 'unmarried mothers' to keep their babies was a humanitarian one. What it has created as a by product is this cycle of deprivation and benefit culture.

It's all such a shame - not to mention a waste of people's lives.

Plum_Pie

trying-very-trying wrote: »

I don't suppose you know many adults that can't read either, but at least one of those women last night couldn't read the recipe, and was confused with the numbers for the quantities.

Very good point, 5.8 millions adults in the UK are functionally illiterate and 6.8 million lack functional numeracy skills (see link below for stats). People can cook without being able to read, write or add up a high level (I actually think JO might be dyslexic?), however these are usually people who got
started very young and learnt through practise, not people starting from scratch.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2008/jul/28/furthereducation.television

The comment about expensive ingredients is interesting. I would guess that rather than using pricey ingredients to make dishes which cost the equivalent of a take-away, people would be encouraged if they could see how much cheaper it is to use basic ingredients.

Churchmouse

Penelope_Penguin wrote: »

I've not yet seen the programme, so can't comment directly on that. However, I need to say that those of us who are lucky enough to be able to cook need to take care not to be too smug. I work with people who are unable to organise their lives. This can be for many reasons (poor upbringing, mental health problems, depression, low self-esteem, etc, etc). They'd love to be able to do more for themselves and their families, but the barriers are simply too much for them.

Many people on low incomes smoke as a way of dealing with the huge stresses that everyday life puts on them.

I'm unable to do basic servicing on my car, and would hate for my mechanic to be scathing about my abilities

Penny. x

:T :T :T :T Thanks Penny:D I didn't see the program either, but at times I could weep at the judgemental attitudes espoused by some. Incidentally my father always serviced and repaired his own and the family's cars. He said that way you knew it had been done properly, and he lambasted the *lazy, ignorant twits that just pay for someone else to do it* As he said, he learned how to do it so anyone else could too:rolleyes: :rolleyes: He'd definitely be lecturing you:rotfl: CM x

edit to say sorry:o this is way off topic, do you want me to delete it Penny?

trying-very-trying

dianadors wrote: »

Back to the subject of teaching cookery in schools - I did used to volunteer in my kids schools when they were younger and I used to work evenings. Now they are older, I work during the day, so I was thinking more of a career change and I think I would like to teach older kids - or even young adults. The problem is I dont have A levels or a degree which I think you need to get into teaching, and as I am almost 50, times running out a bit.

What about a local youth club? Or even perhaps a social care job working with young teens about to be independent of institutions, childrens homes and the like.

I wouldn't think that you would need formal teachers qualifications, if you're only teaching them to cook.

I wish you luck, if this is what you choose to do.

Penelope_Penguin

alec_eiffel wrote: »

I've not seen the show yet but I have it on to watch tonight. I've just read this article by Felicity Lawrence with her take on things -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2008/oct/01/foodanddrink.oliver

That is a very sobering article It had crossed my mind when someone asked what cooking skills people were taught in school, that the education system still fails many people. If you were twagging off academic lessons, it's likely that you missed any sort of cookery classes, too.

However, that article and some posts here are assuming that it's mothers who have the main duty to teach youngsters to cook :mad: DH makes a great roast, so cooks at least once a week. I'm making sure that both my children can cook; and atm, DS is extremely keen :T He wants to know how expensive things are, too, as he has plans to impress his friends, on a budget, when he goes to University (he's only 13 ).

Penny. x

balmaiden wrote:

Secondly the fact that they crushed cream crackers to add to the mince for meatballs what the heck was that all about? Easier than breadcrumbs I think was said, but again the cost!! Surely even people who live on take aways have a crust of bread that will go to waste if not used in dishes like this.

Crumbling a cracker takes a hand, making breadcrumbs needs a blender, or at the least a grater - which people who have limited cookery skills likely won't have.

catkins

I didn't watch this although I wanted to. I like Jamie and do believe he is a genuine person who wants to help people. He has a passion for cooking and that shows.

I find it sad that so many people don't cook, for whatever reason. I am lucky in that I love cooking and I like to know what I am eating. I only work 2 days a week so have plenty of time to make everything from scratch (could probably make more if I spent less time on here!) but even when I worked full time (and I did for 28 years) I cooked most things from scratch. I used to leave home at 7.30 am and not be home until 8pm but would still cook proper meals, including roast dinners.

I guess if you don't like cooking then fair enough although I am sure I would still cook for my family. After all I hate ironing but still do it. I would not have OH go out of the house in creased clothes!!!

I know a lot of people who live on microwave meals or things just put in the oven like pies etc. To me they are usually expensive, full of rubbish and don't normally taste particularly good. Things like frozen roast potatoes and yorkshire pudding for example I think are disgusting although friends rave about them.

No matter how little time you have you can make some sort of meal and there are plenty of ways to make cooking a meal quicker such as cooking in bulk and freezing. Freezing things like breadcrumbs, chopped onion etc is also timesaving.

I really cannot understand how families can afford takeaways so often. We usually have a takeaway indian every forthnight but it is not cheap. How do people manage it? Surely even something like frozen pies would be cheaper and, hopefully, more nutritious.

I had to laugh at the comment of the woman with the huge cooker when she does not even cook!! What's that all about and how did she afford it? Also as for not even sitting your children at a table or not having cutlery - words fail me

balmaiden

Maybe the lady with the " huge cooker" has not always been on benefits and earned money to enable her to buy these things. Just a thought. Mind you I agree prettty pointless when you don't cook.

Plum_Pie

balmaiden wrote: »

Maybe the lady with the " huge cooker" has not always been on benefits and earned money to enable her to buy these things. Just a thought. Mind you I agree prettty pointless when you don't cook.

She had clinical depression and, also, she had taken out a loan to buy the TV.

Please everyone read the article from the Guardian linked above - it's a fantastic summary of the social complexities around this issue (going back 150 yrs!).

lightisfading

bravobeastie wrote: »

You may find a lot of that is on credit.

However, i also noticed that she smoked (i'm also a smoker) but cannot fall into all this 'i can't afford it' rubbish when she's got gold hanging off her like no-ones business (you can guarantee it was all real stuff)

And later on in the programme she was in tears because she'd sold/pawned everything she could (bearing in mind what she was actually wearing might have been something emotionally precious, or not worth anything). As someone who grew up with mum going to the pawn shop on a regular basis (tried to hide it from me but I usually found out) this bit of the programme tugged my heart strings a bit

I have to admit I noticed the massive tv etc too but I imagine it was brought on credit. Unfortunatly thanks to advertising and peer pressure nice companies will 'sell' these things to people for next-to-nothing weekly payments that add up to double the actual value. I can totally understand why it happens though it still irritates me - we had the same huge wooden boxed tv til it died in the late 90s!

I had two reactions to this programme... one was that I totally understand how living on benefits is depressing and very difficult, so I could kind of see where they were coming through. Unfortunatly the other side of me can't see why they 'can't cook' so much that they'd live almost entirely on takeaways. I was never taught to cook (my mum was the 'oven chips + fishfingers' sort, and I left school in 1999 - cookery lessons were scones and fruit salad) but I've taught myself. Go to that wonderful 'library' thing and get a simple cookbook.

Craftyscholar

dianadors wrote: »

I think the root of a lot of problems go so much deeper and I dont want to get on my soapbox here. Its many things - like the fact that the girl had to get on the bus to go to the shops (no small shops anymore, just large supermarkets)- whereas the takeaway was more convenient.

That made me think back.
1950s we were living in a street which has always been in the poor end of the city.
However within walking distance we had at least one grocer, greengrocer, butcher, fishmonger. I went along that street on the bus recently - none of those shops now exist!