Plusnet dispute

quixy_2

Hi

God is it me or I'm I handling this wrong?
Anyone know what I can do - I went with plusnet in august this year because the said it was "suitable for p2p" in the spec. They changed the product and now it doesn't work. If I leave I am being penalised to the tune of £83!!! I really beleive I have been misold a product.

Can anyone please help with this? Am I handling this correctly?

Thanks

Rich.


******************************************************
Dear Rich,

It has come to our attention that you have been heavily using your broadband service in recent months.

You have received this email for one of two reasons:

- Last month you used more than 100GB of data AND 30GB of data at peak-times. This has happened at least twice in the last three months (including last month). This amount of usage is not sustainable for your product type.

OR

- This is the third time in six months we've contacted you about unsustainable usage.*


Peak-time hours: 4pm–12am (midnight)Raised: 2005-11-27 13:32:11 by:
********************************************************

You

2005-11-27
13:32:11
You
Open : [Support Wizard Journey]
[Account Change Request]
[Cancellation Request]
[ADSL - Post Activation]
[Cancellation Request]
[Outbound Migration Request]
[Unsatisfactory ADSL Service]
[Pipex Group]
[provide MAC key]
[Additional Information]
hi

I wish to migrate asap please.


2005-11-27
13:44:13
John Cowling
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr xxxx
You have deffered activation and hardware costs on your account totaling £83.75. You are also in an annual contract untill August 2006. If you wish to migrate now you will need to make subscription payments upto this date. Please let us know how you wish to procced.
Regards,
John Cowling

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
2005-11-27
18:27:30
You
Assigned : Hi

"outstanding contractual notice periods will be waived on this occasion"


3. Request your MAC key and move to another broadband provider -
outstanding contractual notice periods will be waived on this occasion.
Please note, any deferred hardware, activation or migration payments must be
paid in full. To do this, raise a ticket through the Contact Us wizard
- http://www.plus.net/my.html?action=tickets

2005-11-27
21:04:00
Kevin Scott
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr xxxx,
Please note, any deferred hardware, activation or migration payments must be paid in full.

This is the £83.75, we are waiving the normal contract fees e.g. annual contract. Please authorise this fee.

Regards,
Kevin Scott

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
2005-11-27
22:12:26
You
Assigned : Hi

Please give an itemisation for the £83.75 fee.

Regards

Rich.
2005-11-27
23:41:46
Michael Holmes
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr xxxx,
Deferred Activation
Start Date : 08/08/05 Current Year : 1 End Date : 07/08/10
Current Cancellation Charge : £58.75
Deferred Hardware (Voyager 105 USB Modem)
Start Date : 08/08/05 Current Year : 1 End Date : 07/08/10
Current Cancellation Charge : £25.00

Regards,
Michael Holmes

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
2005-11-28
10:01:49
You
Assigned : Hi

Thanks for that. I will return the modem to your good selves - please supply the address and procedure for this.

I refuse to pay the £58.75 cancellation charge. The service I bought in August was "suitable for peer to peer" - and plusnet have changed the service since then. If it was no longer suitable for peer to peer then you should of advised me that. I have screenshots/ time stamped of the original product description and I should warn you that I will pursue all means open to me to see that I leave this contract without penalty.

Sincerely

Rich

2005-11-28
16:03:06
Aron Hines
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr xxxx,
Unfortunately we cannot accept the Modem.

The deffered fee is the £58.75 that we paid BT on your behalf to activate your line, this would have been written off at 20%/year providing you stayed with us.


Regards,
Aron Hines

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
2005-11-28
16:38:31
You
Assigned : Hi

This is not acceptable to me.
Plusnet changed the product. The product is no longer suitable for my use and now I'm being penalised.
The responses I have received on this issue are unacceptable. This has to be escalated to a manager.


2005-11-28
18:45:29
Aron Hines
Customer Support Centre Actioned : Dear Mr xxxx,
Deffered fee cannot be waived are disputed. It was an option you chosed when you signed up and it was fully detailed how it works.

Regards,
Aron Hines

To administer your account and for all your help and support requirements visit http://portal.plus.net/index_nlp.html
2005-11-28
19:35:17
You
Assigned : This is not acceptable to me.
Plusnet changed the product. The product is no longer suitable for my use and now I'm being penalised.
The responses I have received on this issue are unacceptable. This has to be escalated to a manager.

JohalaReewi

Plusnet changed the T&Cs for their products in September (http://www.plus.net/info2/legal/index.html). I guess you are on the broadband plus product and are being hit by the acceptable use policy which has been introduced. Unfortunately, Plusnet can change the T&Cs (check the T&Cs in effect when you signed up). However, they should have given you 14 days notice - check that they did. You could have cancelled without penalty in this 14 day period.

It looks like you signed up for an annual contract instead of a monthly one, which means that if you bail out before the year is up, you are still liable for 1 years subs. Plusnet seem to be waiving this and just asking for the activation fee and modem to be paid for. Normally, you would have to pay the activation fee as a new broadband user (unless you found a special offer from an ISP) so you haven't really lost there. You would also have to have purchased a modem and you opted to buy one from Plusnet. Plusnet offered deferred payment terms so you didn't pay for the activation fee and modem upfront, but paid an amount when you left. The amount paid depended on how long you had been with Plusnet. Looks like Plusnet are not waiving this. However, the activation fee for an annual contract should be £47 ??

I would look around for an ISP who can provide the level of service you need at a price you are willing to pay and offers free migration. Get your MAC code and pay for the activation fee and modem (you will need it for your new ISP anyway). At least Plusnet are not making you pay the unpaid subs for a year. Maybe if you keep on at Plusnet, they might make you another offer but all the time, you are paying subs to Plusnet and the AUP will throttle your bandwidth big time.

Also have a look at the Plusnet forum over at ADSLguide
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=plusnet

GeoThermal

Normally when a service changes the terms you agreed to, to your detrement you have the right to cancel without penalty. As mentioned by JohalaReewi there is usually a notice period which I thought was 30 days. Plus.net are arguing the point as if you are choosing to leave for no reason other than personal choice. As they have forced you to leave by changing the terms to your detrement I think it is fair to expect any penalties to be waived. If Plus.net hadn't changed the terms then the chances are you would stay with them and the fee would be irrelevant. However as they are digging their heels in you would be best seeking advice from someone like Trading Standards.

Hope you get it resolved.

mhendo

PlusNet are not charging any cancellation fee. The £58.75 is a deferred charge for the amount which was paid to BT wholesale for the activation of a new ADSL service on your line. Most ISP's charge this from the outset - PlusNet allowed you to defer this fee - not pay it until you leave, plus it decreases every year you're with them.

PlusNet are allowing you to leave immediately, dispite you being on an annual contract, without having to pay the remainder of the contract period.

I don't know of any ISP which allows you to leave within a year without having to cover the ADSL activation fee. Virgin.net used to have this wide open, so people could sign-up with free activiation and leave the next month without any fee due.

quixy_2

Thanks for responses

Basically I have decided to pay and get the hell out of there.
I had an interesting conversation about this with a lawyer friend of mine last night over a beer. He said that this is yet an other case of the might against the right. Ok they sent new t&c in september but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to read them at the time... my fault I guess but I don't remember clicking any acceptance button.... so they assume acceptance based upon an expired time limit... Anyhow with the legions of disgruntled plusnet customers (and soon metronet where they will adopt the same sharp practices) I think there will be a test case real soon.

I think there will have to be a new column in martins budget planner - "getting shafted pot" - where you need to allow for a few hundred pounds for rip offs from garages, mobile phone companies and, of course ISPs!!!!

Thanks again for comments.

paul_h

quixy wrote:

Basically I have decided to pay and get the hell out of there.
I had an interesting conversation about this with a lawyer friend of mine last night over a beer. He said that this is yet an other case of the might against the right. Ok they sent new t&c in september but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to read them at the time... my fault I guess but I don't remember clicking any acceptance button.... so they assume acceptance based upon an expired time limit... Anyhow with the legions of disgruntled plusnet customers (and soon metronet where they will adopt the same sharp practices) I think there will be a test case real soon.

A close relative is in a similar position with PlusNet, he has paid to be able to migrate but is pursuing the matter further.

What you basically want is the original contract rescinded - i.e. for you to be restored to the same position had the contract not been made - this is PlusNet's responsibility as they have changed the contract. The problem is that PlusNet maintain that there are two separate contracts, one for the connection and one for the service - they are not in breach of the connection contract.

It is correct that these fees (£50+VAT) were paid by PlusNet to BT Wholesale to set up the connection and are not refundable. Whilst this is fine in theory, the fact remains that had you known that PlusNet were to change their T&C, you would had not have entered into either contract, and now you will not receive any restitution for the fact that you will now have to pay for the connection in full and no longer have the option to have it deferred by any future ISP provider. What makes it worse, it is likely that PlusNet knew they were going to make these changes to the T&C when they took your cash.

By the way, family member in question notified PN of his intention to move within the notice period and still had to pay the deferred fees, as did everyone in the same situation. He also paid extra for a monthly contract - they subsequently allowed anyone to leave without fulfilling the minimum 12 month term, so this was a waste of money too!

Like GeoThermal, my advice is to visit your CAB and/or complain to Trading Standards.

mm66

I had a problem with broadband with service and billing issues. After 3 months of to and fro i complained to OFCOM. OFCOM said they wont interfere officially but they opened a case, gave me a ref # and said they would pass the grievance to a senior person in the company who will contact me. The matter was sorted within the week at terms more than even what I was asking for.

I suggest call OFCOM and speak to one of their advisors. Have all the contracts etc in front of you.

EdCov

Beware of Plusnet, I had a situation where I was in the right and they were in the wrong, and they said fine "Sue" but if you do not pay us the money we'll have you.

It was just a month's money and so I complained but paid.

I was totally shocked by their behaviour, so be careful they have a habbit of doing this sort of thing. My experience was a couple of years ago.

I read at the time quite a few complaints about their behaviour. I think certain parts of their business believe the customer is always wrong.

paul_h

To update my earlier post, said family member had a phone call a few days ago from someone quite high up at PlusNet, totally out of the blue.

After a lengthy discussion, they offered to refund the £11.75 he paid for a monthly contract so that he will have been released on the same terms as everyone else who had left without incurring the minimum term penalty.

"Fine... that's a start" he said.

He's still pursuing them for the rest.