BT Internet-Phorm trial starting tomorrow

penrhyn

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2227104/bt-phorm-trial-begins-tomorrow

BT Internet call it webwise, its a way of logging your browsing habits and targetting advertising at you..............................or is it an invasion of privacy?

HotchPotch_2

I'd call it spyware myself and a material change to their service. If you are a BT Broadband customer it could be a way of getting out of your contract for free!

wantmemoney

for the less technology minded like me, it's easier to understand if you equate it to the Royal Mail.

The postal service intercepts all your mail. They open and read your private correspondence. They profile you from the information and send you 'junk advertising' depending on your profile.

all very dodgy

Alfie_E

BT Webwise – Just Say No

wantmemoney’s analogy is a good one. There are also a number of serious technical issues. Earlier this year, a large amount of information on Webwise was made available. This latest trial has been delayed by a few months, so that information may be a little out-of-date now. However, there is nothing on the current BT Webwise pages that suggests anything has changed.

Your ISP is in a very privileged position. They are able to manipulate all your unencrypted web browsing. This ability is at the heart of the way BT Webwise works. Many websites use cookies to identify you. Each website has a pile of cookies that belongs to it. A basic principle of cookie security is that a website can only get at its own cookies. For example, you wouldn’t want every website you visit to see the cookies for your webmail and so be able to read all your email.

BT Webwise wants to be able to see its own identifying cookie no matter what website you’re visiting. It uses its ability to manipulate all your unencrypted web browsing to get around this basic principle of cookie security. It inserts an extra Webwise cookie into the pile of cookies for each and every unencrypted website you visit. BT Webwise will try to stop websites from seeing its extra, special cookie. Unfortunately, there are a number of easy ways for any website to get at that Webwise identifying cookie. So, when BT say that the profile that is built up about you is completely anonymous, this is not true. More than that, it will be actively helping to erode your web privacy. If you move your laptop to a non-BT Internet connection, the Webwise identifying cookies will leak out uncontrollably.

If your broadband connection is selected for the trial, your unencrypted web browsing will be manipulated by BT, whether you want this to happen or not. However, when you are presented with the BT Webwise invitation page, you should still choose the No Thanks option. Even though all your unencrypted web browsing will still be manipulated, the special Webwise cookie will say that you don’t want to take part and therefore it won’t uniquely identify you.

Over the years the web has become a diverse and complex place. So, what BT are attempting is equally complex. It may break your use of the web in subtle and interesting ways. Once again, if your broadband connection is selected for the trial, there will be no way around this. At this point, you may be wondering just how voluntary participation in this trial is.

The new BT Terms and Conditions that accompany the trial make it clear that it is the responsibility of the person who pays the bill to tell everyone who might use their connection about BT Webwise and how to turn it on and off. If anyone is later unhappy about what has happened, BT may claim that it is you who have failed in your legal responsibility.

Hazzanet

Looks like the simplest way to stop it is to block their cookies. From: http://www2.bt.com/static/i/btretail/webwise/help.html#nav5

If you regularly delete your cookies and do not wish to take BT Webwise, add webwise.net to your browsers' blocked cookies settings.

AGMSIX

wantmemoney wrote: »

for the less technology minded like me, it's easier to understand if you equate it to the Royal Mail.

The postal service intercepts all your mail. They open and read your private correspondence. They profile you from the information and send you 'junk advertising' depending on your profile.

all very dodgy

You've almost got it right but you've used the anti-webwise analogy. The system would replace random junk mail with more relevant junk mail.

DatabaseError

hazzanet, you are really missing the point.
the cookie is the visible symptom, phorm will intercept ALL of your traffic regardless of opt in or out, or cookie blocking. the only way to avoid phorm is to migrate to a decent, honourable, ISP, if enough people did this, then BT would have to rethink, though, as most net subscribers, especially bt internet ones (sorry) are idiots (naive?), this is unlikely to happen

AGMSIX

tonyhague wrote: »

phorm will intercept ALL of your traffic regardless of opt in or out, or cookie blocking.

Evidence please, AFAIK no third party has examined the source code and/or equipment used in any of the trials. Do you have credible information of what the trials being undertaken at present actually do or are you just recycling anti BT propaganda?
Links to the source of most of the anti phorm rhetoric not accepted, credible, reasoned information from parties who HAVE examined the system as it is being used at present only. If your crystal ball is working also info regarding how the system will be implemented once the trials have completed.

tonyhague wrote: »

..most net subscribers, especially bt internet ones (sorry) are idiots (naive?)..

Again any credible information that backs up that statement?

DatabaseError

"..BT chief press officer Adam Liversage confirmed that opted-out traffic will pass through the system during the trial...".
"

that a credible source?

as to bt customers being are idiots (naive?), just look at the number of posts here and elsewhere from people who believe that their isp choices are "just bt or talktalk, 'cos thats what it says on samknows etc.." BT are the obvious 1st choice for a 1st broadband connection bec ause people know their name, and already have dealings with them (a little like british gas), their pricing is not competitive, yet they continue in business, £21/month for a 15Gb cap and an long, 18 month, contract is a little steep, perhaps?! Most 'savvy' net users would quickly pass on a deal like that.

AGMSIX

What Mr Liversage actually says is "opted-out traffic will pass through the system" whereas the anti-phorm mob prefer the word "intercept" which has different connotations,no?
And you conveniently miss out "opted-out traffic will not be mirrored or profiled" and also "BT is still working on a network-level opt-out".
Anyway, you've identified a gap in the market for net users who are not idiots, wonder how you would sell that to people.

DatabaseError

i read those bits, but your question was answered without them. considering the background to the trials i don't think anyone should just 'trust' bts explanations