Pls help! unnecessary/unreasonable architect bill

aliclago

Anyone can give me any advice on my extension project?
I have used a local architect in order to submit our extension plan for planning permission and building ragulation permission etc. and paid him so far about £2,000. After sending a party wall agreement letter to the next door, they picked up the ridiculous error which the architect made - our extention goes over the bundary. So I asked the architect to amend the drawing. He agreed to amend it but asked for money. He explained to me that he needed £400-£500 to get it redrawn by his man. I disagreed but I was persuaded and carelessly agreed to pay for it in the end. The amended one has been done and I am in waiting for this ridiculous bill. I am very annoied with this bill (it will be £400-500 plus other related expenses). I really think that this bill is totally unnecessary as it was his own mistake.
After getting a quatation from a builder, I realised that this project was too much destractive and too expensive(one of the wall to be removed was found to be a supportive wall and needed to make a trench for the foundation of the new wall). So I decided not to remove the wall, which means that the drawing needs amending again. I can feel that he would take this as his advantage. So I decided not to go for him and will ask someone else to do it.
Could anyone please tell me what I shoud do with the architect and where I can go to get some help for getting away from this? I am very desparate to get any advice on this.

lawrie28

I'm sure that Architects have a chartered institute, speak to them for advice. If it was his mistake, I would have expected him to pay for it. I would not pay the bill, but you have already agreed to. It may be cheapest to negotiate that he draws up the new set FOC, and you pay him his £500 when you are happy with them. If he is doing the work, don't give him a bean till he has finished.

He should also advise on major work like the wall taken out. Why was he not doing the drawing himself? If he has a man that does his drawings, then I don't quite get it.

planning_officer

yep, look on the RIBA website to see if he is a registered architect and contact them for advice.

Look at http://www.ribafind.org/ and click on 'professional conduct' on the right hand side.

Also, try looking at this: http://www.architecture.com/Files/RIBAProfessionalServices/ProfessionalConduct/DisputeResolution/PracticalMatters/ItsUsefulToKnow.pdf and look at page 7 in particular.

oilit

In my experience, you need to consider the following:-

1) Did he send you the drawings prior to submission for your review and approval? If so then at best I woudl say you have joint responsibility for the error.

2) Any drawings and designs you have had him do normally (s)he owns the copyright for, so if you find another architect who picks up these drawings and amends them (1) Could be infringing copyright - and I dont know the leaglities but since you are the client of the original architect it may be you who is legally responsible, (2) I am not sure I would want to deal with an architect who was prepared to infringe copyright.

I would suggest that you ask for a non chargeable meeting with the architect, and explain your frustrations at the situation (calmly), and ask them for him to go away and re-consider how he woudl propose 'we' overcome this lack of confidence you have based on the current status, and if you had a quote from him originally (which surely you would have right?) then ask him to ensure he sticks to the quote.

You may find that you could appeal to his better nature also by explaing that you hired an expert to do this, and the errors made would not be picked up by you and you entrusted him with all his years of experience to have got these basic things right, explain that you dont want to fall out over this but as this is only the start of the project your a little concerned that you burdon the extra costs and your not confident where this all ends.

Depending on the reaction - you may decide to bin his work anyway, and appoint a new architect who knows what they are doing - and just not pay - but see if he is a member of a professional body and write to them to explain your frustrations - be prepared for a fight though - he sounds a crook.

(FWIW if he is saying he needs to pay an draftsman that suggests he outsources it all - which in turn suggests this might be a tin pot organization - all alrchitects i know and have used have their own draftsmen).

GlasgowDC

Not all architects are members of the RIBA, however they must be on the register held by the ARB in order to use the title 'architect'.

Check out http://search.arb.org.uk/ to see if he is a registered architect. If not, he should not be using the title and should be reported to the ARB.

The site will also allow you to fill out an online complaints form to clarify where you stand. Given the Architects competence seems to be in question, I think this should be your preferred route if you dont receive a satisfactory response from your architect.

The ARB requires you to raise your dispute with the Architect before complaining to the registration board. Follow the guidance here: http://www.arb.org.uk/regulation/making-a-complaint.shtml

Hope this helps

planning_officer

A related question (as architects fees are not my area of knowledge!) - some relatives of mine are planning a single storey extension (quite a large one - about 90 sqm). Their architect has demanded a fee of £900 for doing the plans for planning application only - this does not include building regs drawings. In actual fact, he got several things wrong and I ended up drawing the plans, which he has copied and submitted for the planning application.

Does a fee of £900 just for planning application drawings sound reasonable to anyone? And when does one normally pay an architect - he is asking for the money now, just after submitting the planning application. Is that normal, or is it more common to wait until the planning application has been decided?

Any views from architects or anyone 'in the know' would be appreciated!

aliclago

Now I realised that he wan't a qualified architect. Probably that's why he has somebody who does drawings for him. I was quite suprised that someone like him had been working as a professional. Is this legal? If so, what other 'proper architects' are for, studying for 8 years + for nothing?

fluffymuffy

aliclago wrote: »

Now I realised that he wan't a qualified architect. Probably that's why he has somebody who does drawings for him. I was quite suprised that someone like him had been working as a professional. Is this legal? If so, what other 'proper architects' are for, studying for 8 years + for nothing?

It's perfectly legal for someone to do the work of an architect - and do it badly too - as long as they don't call themselves an Architect. The title is protected in law and it's a criminal matter to use it when not registered with the ARB.

Sadly the requirements don't go any further and any tom/!!!!!!/harry can set themselves up as a provider of Architectural Services - and while architects are required to carry insurance, others are not.

Further moan - in the US all building work must be carried out by real architects - thus protecting not only the consumer but also the income of architects. In the UK architects find little profit in the domestic market where they have to compete with the unqualifieds who do not need to pay out on indemnity insurance year on year.

fluffymuffy

planning_officer wrote: »

Does a fee of £900 just for planning application drawings sound reasonable to anyone? And when does one normally pay an architect - he is asking for the money now, just after submitting the planning application. Is that normal, or is it more common to wait until the planning application has been decided?

Any views from architects or anyone 'in the know' would be appreciated!

The work put in for a planning application for an extension goes far beyond what the planning officers see - the design must be thought through in terms of the construction detailing. I'm sure you know of many instances where unbuildable designs have had to be revised after planning was granted because the designer ran into problems when producing the construction drawings.

I'd have said that £1800 was a reasonable fee for a large but straightforward single-storey extension. And I'd be looking for half the money at the point where it's submitted to planning. There's a number of reasons for this. The work in bulk is already done by that stage. It makes the client focus on the idea that this is the final design and stop making changes. It ensures that work done is paid for - not everything gets approved despite the most careful preapplication enquiries and post-submission negotiations with planners, and it's almost impossible to get clients to pay for work which failed to get approval. While sometime we can blame the designer it's often no ones fault, and architects are not allowed (by the RIBA) to work on a no-win no-fee basis - and why should they?

aliclago

Until Oilit mentioned the copy right, I didn't think the implication of this. I feel that I am getting trapped. I wish I did't start this project or didn't use this architect.
It's not remedy for this but I have come up with a differect idea- using a conservatory company. My current planned kitchen extension is to have a tiled roof with patio doors and windows all around. Instead of it, I am thinking of having a glassed roof and making a conservatory. I have spoken to one of the reps and been told that they could take care of everything and I don't have to be bothered any more. It sounds promising and economical as well. Nevertheless, the kitchen extension is not only my project. I have other work to be done - garage extension(incorporating a separate garage by removing the wall), downstair's toilet extension(lining up with the front porch) and conversion of upstair's toilet(making a shower space by getting rid of the airing cupboard to the loft). As you can imagine, these bits of pieces work doesn't come cheap - quoted as 120K(incl. VAT). So I am trying to cut down the cost desparately. I am thinking of getting separate quotes from builders and hoping that it would help me work easier in terms of budget. Depending on the cost, I have to give up some of my works. Is there anyone who has done the similar project? Has anyone done a research on a conservatory - is it better or cheaper than one by builder etc.?
I appreciate any advice.
By the way, I keep losing the truck of my posted message- I don't know where they have gone! Please excuse me for reposting the same message if you have ever noticed any.

debbie42

aliclago wrote: »

By the way, I keep losing the truck of my posted message- I don't know where they have gone! Please excuse me for reposting the same message if you have ever noticed any.

If you click on your name on the left hand side, next to the message, you can look for recent posts.