Persimmon not handed over site so bins are overflowing

Rossco

Hi,

I have been living in a house on a Persimmon estate for the last two years that according to the original plans is now complete but has yet to be handed over to the local council.

The problem myself and a number of other residents are having is that we live in close proximity to a park built by Persimmon with public waste bins that have only been emptied once in the last 12 months. The last time the bins were emptied was when we collectively complained to our local counciller before the local elections in the form of a petition.

The bins are overflowing and there is waste all over the park and blowing into peoples front gardens including glass, dog waste, beer cans and all manner of unpleasant things. I think the problem is having an effect on the desirability of the area as I am currently trying to sell my house and I have had a number of comments from viewers saying they loved the house but were put off my the park mess just 100 feet from my door. Yes it may be an excuse but I have to say its quite a compelling one.

Does anyone have any experience in complaining to get something done long term as it could be years before Persimmon hand over the site? I feel like we are all stuck in limbo as the council says its Persimmons responsibility and Persimmon says its up to the council.

Thanks,
Ross.

lynzpower

Do you pay as service charge for your waswte collection? Do you pay council tax?

Debt_Free_Chick

Rossco wrote: »

The problem myself and a number of other residents are having is that we live in close proximity to a park built by Persimmon with public waste bins that have only been emptied once in the last 12 months.

<snip>

I feel like we are all stuck in limbo as the council says its Persimmons responsibility and Persimmon says its up to the council.

Are you sure these are "public waste bins"? If by "Public" you mean "Council", then I'm pretty certain they won't be Council bins if they haven't adopted the park. It's almost certainly Persimmon, who should have contracted with a waste collection firm (e.g. Serco) to have the bins emptied. I'm also fairly certain that the local Council have powers to take action against Persimmon for failure to deal with the rubbish, but whether they have the resource to do so is another matter. I can only imagine that when your Councillor arranged for the bins to be emptied, it was a "one-off". Call it a "gesture of goodwill" towards Persimmon, who should have been doing it.

Even the Council do adopt the park, they may still not provide bins. Bins are only provided where there is "a need". They are intended for small items of rubbish e.g. bus tickets, sweet wrappers that kind of thing. There are usually separate bins for dog waste.

There's quite a bit of debate about whether or not bins attract rubbish. Think about your situation .... the problem is that the bins are overflowing. If there were no bins then some of that rubbish would be deposited in a bin elsewhere or even taken home. Responsible people use bins - irresponsible people just drop litter, even if bins are provided. The argument might be that there would be almost no rubbish in the park, as all the responsible people currently using the bins would simply find another bin. For these reasons, many Councils simply don't provide bins at all and there's some evidence to suggest that this actually works!

If the park is not adopted, then it will be down to the landowners to arrange for the bins to be emptied - or simply to remove them altogether.

The Environmental Health or Waste Collection team at the Council will confirm whether or not the bins are the Council's responsibility, so an email to them should confirm this. If they're not the Council's, you'll need to badger Persimmon - but let your local Councillor know too and see if he/she can get the Council to bring some pressure to bear on Persimmon.

Personally, I would campaign to have the bins removed altogether. Our Parish Council removed all the bins they used to provide in the Parish at the beginning of the year and it does seem, in our case, that there is less rubbish. Especially in/around the Playgrounds!

Who would have thought there could be so much to consider in the provision of bins in public areas?

Rossco

Thanks Debt Free Chick I can definitely understand the view of public bins you have put forward in that they are only used because they are there.

I would say that the majority of the people using the park are responsible and its not they're intention of littering but because the bins are full to the top and the rubbish is hanging out whatever they are cramming in is being spit out.

I'm shall definitely follow your advice and contact environmental health to find out about getting the bins removed or organising a petition to do so.

Thanks,
Ross.

poppysarah

If you really want to sell your house then clearing the mess up yourself will do the trick.

ask your council to clear it up or provide you with rubbish bags and litter pickers so you can do it. Go see your MP this time too.

We have site called Tidy Oldham where we can post photos to of rubbish and graffetti.

Premier_2

If the council has not yet adopted the land, then unfortunately it is not their responsibility to empty the 'public' bins, nor supply any of the other usual public services such as street lighting (the repair and electricity bill), cleaning the roads, etc.

It all falls down to the owner of the land i.e. the developer.

Now that the development is complete, why has the council not adopted the land? It's quite common when the development is still under construction, but should occur soon thereafter.

It it's a large development where there is more than one developer, then it could be that the non completion by the others delays matters, but that is not the situation you describe.

There's positives all round by the council adopting the land. On the one hand the residents obviously get the support they are paying for through their taxes and on the other the developer is not left footing the bill. Ultimately they will have to pay for the clear up of the rubbish because the council will only accept once they are happy - they won't want to waste tax payers money clearing up the rubbish the developer should be paying for.

When a developer sells a property with un-adopted roads, the developer normally pays a bond to ensure the roads later become become adopted (presuming this was always the intention), thereby should the developer fail to make carry out the necessary work (usually because of the risk of them going bust), then the bond will fund the adoption hopefully. Your solicitor should have investigated this and advised you about it when you purchased the property.

So first step would be to try and find out why the development is not being adopted. Then, if appropriate, you may need to contact your solicitor again to see what can be done to speed it along, calling on the bond if necessary.

Is there a residents association where you live? Normally this is the type of thing they get involved heavily with on any new property development. If not, have you thought of forming one?

Rossco

Thanks Premier,

Whilst I'm happy to litter pick myself for the sake of my house sale I think its a bit galling that I'd have to given I pay the same level of council tax as eveyone else in the town and who get protection and enforcement from such problems. Surely the council are responsible for ensuring Persimmon do not allow the park to become an environmental death trap and so put the neigbourhoods tax money to good use?

The other problem is that because multiple agencies are now involved, councillers, environment, Persimmon, solicitors and probably more they can keep passing buck around between themselves with no one taking overall responsibility to get things rectified.

I genuinely believe its a danger to the children that play there so I stopped taking my own there months ago. Where there is rubbish there is probably vermin and all it takes is for one child to come into contact with a rat to contract a potentially fatal illness as seen in the news recently.

Thanks.

ChasingButterflies

Hi,

I am not sure if this only applies to Scotland - but any new build estate has to have a management company (or residents association) to deal with communal areas on the housing estate. Which coveres everything from cutting grass, fixing broken fences :rolleyes: and repairing lights etc. Is there a Management company in place where you are?

Why not print off a bunch of leaflets for a litterpick day, or even speak to some of your neighbours? This will deal with the short term issue of the litter etc being an immediate problem and allow all the children locally to benefit from actually being able to use the facility that is available to them.

I know it is galling when you are paying for a service (i.e. council tax) and not receiving the benefits equally. In our case we do not receive a kerbside recycling facility as "we are not in an urban area" our solution is to take all the recycling when we have to go into town for dd's dance class. Sometimes it is easier just to do the job yourself instead of beating your head against a wall covered in red tape...

meester

Rossco wrote: »

Thanks Premier,

Whilst I'm happy to litter pick myself for the sake of my house sale I think its a bit galling that I'd have to given I pay the same level of council tax as eveyone else in the town and who get protection and enforcement from such problems. Surely the council are responsible for ensuring Persimmon do not allow the park to become an environmental death trap and so put the neigbourhoods tax money to good use?

I suggest you contact the council first, then come back if you don't get any joy.

Debt_Free_Chick

Rossco wrote: »

Whilst I'm happy to litter pick myself for the sake of my house sale I think its a bit galling that I'd have to given I pay the same level of council tax as eveyone else in the town and who get protection and enforcement from such problems.

I understand this sentiment, but Councils don't clear litter/waste from private land. Even if someone fly-tips on private land, the landowner then has to clear the rubbish and might even have to pay to have hazardous waste cleared!

I live in a rural village and we get a Council litter team visit us ..... ONCE A YEAR!!!! In addition, house prices are more expensive here so we actually pay MORE Council Tax. But most of our CT gets "exported" to Bexhill to support those who have a greater need in terms of housing, street lighting (we have none) and other Council Services.

You'll drive yourself potty if you think that paying £x in CT entitles you to a, b & c services - it doesn't. The services go where they're needed and our CT is just our share of the total bill.

In any event - this is private land and if you really want the Council to clear the rubbish then there's an argument that they should clear rubbish from ALL private land.

As the land is not yet adopted, then it's Persimmon who are being negligent. Organise a petition amongst your neighbours and send a copy to your local Councillor & the Environmental Health team at the Council.

mizzbiz

Premier is right, if it's unadopted land, then Persimmon are responsible for the rubbish.

With regards the Council, speaking from working on a PFI contract, if enough people compain and cause enough trouble, the council will persuade their contractor to remove the rubbish on a one off basis. The council will not adopt the land until it meets a specific criteria, which the developer is responsible for attaining. Until then, pressure really needs to be put on Persimmon to take responsibility.

Edit: why don't you take some pictures of the rubbish and go to the paper? This will have an extraordinary effect on the speed in which things get done.