Insured by Direct Line - Under 25 With Metalic Paint? You're Insurance may be VOID!

anewman

raskazz wrote: »

Easy - They're both accessories not modifications!

Then again a bluetooth kit is an accessory in that it can easily be removed, whereas metallic paint is a modification.

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

FlameCloud wrote: »

Would you agree though that the question could be displayed more clearly, with examples though? I would hazard at a guess that 90+% of cars are metallic, yet no where near that number of declarations. That along would suggest that the questioning is misleading to the general public.

Yes but not 90% of Metallic paint is a modification

A lot of manufacturers will include it in the price people pay, especially for up market cars or higher basic spec models

And the question is fine, people just misread it because it suits them and they think they can argue their way out of a problem

Its issues like this and others regularly seen on here which make the insurance reducing tools on here risky

Far too many people lie or deceive and this site has certainly encouraged it in regards to jobs

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

anewman wrote: »

Then again a bluetooth kit is an accessory in that it can easily be removed and not a modification, whereas metallic paint is a modification.

I would say it depends on the type of bluetooth

If its one of the integrated systems then its a modification, if its simply a plug in one then its an accessory

darich

raskazz wrote: »

Easy - They're both accessories not modifications!

In insurance terms, what is the difference between an accessory and a modification then?
I'm not being sarcastic or smart - I'm genuinely asking because I'm unsure of the difference. An accessory can be a modification but a modification can also be an accessory.
Is the difference maybe that an accessory is removable but a modification is permanent?

LinasPilibaitisisbatman

darich wrote: »

In insurance terms, what is the difference between an accessory and a modification then?
I'm not being sarcastic or smart - I'm genuinely asking because I'm unsure of the difference. An accessory can be a modification but a modification can also be an accessory.
Is the difference maybe that an accessory is removable but a modification is permanent?

I would say an accessory is something which is not fixed in a firm manner and can be easily removed

i.e an air freshner, a plug in sat nav kit or blue tooth, wheel trims etc

whereas say alloy wheels, body kits, metallic paint, built in sat navs/blue kits are firmly fixed if not permanent and are actually part of the car's body/infastructure

raskazz

darich wrote: »

In insurance terms, what is the difference between an accessory and a modification then?
I'm not being sarcastic or smart - I'm genuinely asking because I'm unsure of the difference. An accessory can be a modification but a modification can also be an accessory.
Is the difference maybe that an accessory is removable but a modification is permanent?

Pretty much. As a quick definition I'd define an accessory as an item that is useful to but not essential to the functioning of the car, does not materially affect the value/performance/appearance of the car and can be added and removed at will without needing any tools.

A modification is something that materially alters the value, appearance or performance of the car and cannot simply be fitted or removed quickly and easily.

Of course, there will be always be grey areas - if something genuinely is an accessory then insurers won't attempt to use it to raise the question of misrepresentation or non-disclosure.

In general the wording of questions on modifications/extras are pretty clear - I posted a few examples on another thread on the same subject. I think LinasPilibaitisisbatman raises a valid point that a lot of people try to twist the wording to suit their own ends rather than simply answering it as it is asked, or simply don't bother checking the car before answering the question (and of course there are others who simply lie!). In my experience of actually dealing with cases of non-disclosure of modifications most people simply feign ignorance ("I bought it like that") - so even if the question was worded very clearly with examples they still wouldn't have disclosed the changes correctly.

Edited to add - I remember years ago when I worked in motor insurance sales. Probably 15-20% of the time people would respond to the question "has your car been modified or had any extras fitted" with "Not to my knowledge" - that means nothing if they haven't made any effort to check. Every single time I told them to check it and find out - as someone else mentioned, ignorance is not an excuse. It might be worth adding a button on online quotations that says 'Not to my knowledge', which when pressed instructs the policyholder to check the car before proceeding to yes/no answers!

buddge

Direct Line is one of the strangest ones out there, and does try this game, The be all and end all is, unless they ask a specific question for every single possible modification on the proposal form then they cannot refuse cover, this has been highlighted time and again by the FOS. IE when you try to get cover/fill in the proposal form the questions are always generic, is it left hand drive, a grey import, have a body kit etc. You will find there are specific limits in the policy for audio and telephone equip, ie blue tooth. Metalic paint would be considered standard, even if you had an accident, the car would go away and be repaired and no one would even take any notice what sort of paint it had. The only things unerwriters are interested in is power and handling enhancing modifications.
(I am an engineer for an insurance comapny, but not the one mentioned)

raskazz

buddge wrote: »

Direct Line is one of the strangest ones out there, and does try this game, The be all and end all is, unless they ask a specific question for every single possible modification on the proposal form then they cannot refuse cover this has been highlighted time and again by the FOS.

This is not right at all. As long as the question is clearly worded then the insurer does not have to list every possible modification - to do so would be totally impractical for policyholders and insurers alike. I do not know of any FOS verdict or guidance that implies that what you say is the case, I would be interested if you could link to anything relevant that supports this assertion. I refer you to the case that I mentioned above - the FOS technical support line agreed with us that a voidance was entirely legitimate as the policholder had been asked the clear and unambiguous question "has the car been modified in any way or had optional extras fitted" and answered "no" without even checking the position.

buddge wrote: »

The only things unerwriters are interested in is power and handling enhancing modifications.

This is simply wrong and I wish people would stop propogating myths that have no basis in fact. I am a motor underwriter and I assure you that most, if not all, insurers are concerned not only with alterations that affect performance but also those that affect the value of the car and the theft risk.

tinkerbell84

anewman wrote: »

Then again a bluetooth kit is an accessory in that it can easily be removed, whereas metallic paint is a modification.

I'd have to remove the dashboard, steering wheel, stereo and gearbox housing to remove mine!

not an easy modification at all

finbow

This whole issue thats been raised regarding mods on MSE of late is an interesting one.

Parkers is a great site for checking whats standard specification on their car. Especially interesting is metallic paint, audi R8's, porsche 911's etc all list it as an optional extra the only car I where I could find it as standard was the ferrari 360 and perhaps a few special edition models of other cars.

This obviously means many people (myself included) drive around without having declared this, when getting a quote from direct line online they do not ask if your car is modified in fact I couldn't find anything whilst having a quick review of my paper work that in anyway defines a modification.

Regardless of wether it is written into the small print or not, it leads me to believe either directline are not particularly bothered (which some of you have suggested isn't the case) or that they infact what to have loop holes available to them in order to use them if necessary???

If they really didn't want under 25's with metallic paint surely it'd be a question asked during the online quotes ?? or at least written somewhere on the front page etc...as nearly all cars do not have it as standard??