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Do I have to accept refurbished electronics?
Kerr_Avon_2
Posts: 55 Forumite
Hello all. Just looking for some opinions and advice.
The basic question is this: if I return an electronics item, within warranty, to the manufacturer for repair and they cannot repair it, do I have to accept a refurbished replacement (ie someone else's faulty equipment that they have managed to get working again) or can I insist on a new replacement or, failing that, a refund.
The full details: My XBox360, which I bought in November 2007) started malfunctioning last month. It wasn't the common Red Ring of Death (RROD) fault but a more unusual problem with the controller input being misinterpreted.
I logged on to the Microsoft XBox registration and repair website and set the wheels in motion to return it (to the service centre in Germany) to have it repaired. The console was picked up by UPS a fortnight ago and I am waiting for it to come back.
For the uninitiated, great console though the XBox 360 is in terms of games, it has been plagued by technical problems since launch and has an incredibly high failure rate, most commonly due to overheating that causes a hardware failure (displaying the aforementioned RRoD) which renders the console completely useless.
Because of the high returns rate, it seems that MS examines your returned console and, if it looks like it may be unrepairable or that a repair is going to take a while, they simply swap your console for one previously returned by someone else which they have now gotten round to "fixing". If at some point your returned console is eventually fixed, it is added to the pool of refurb consoles sent out in the future.
Some people (claim to) have received new consoles as a replacement when their own was not repaired, so I taped a very polite note to my console stating that should they be unable to repair my own machine and send it back, I respectfully requested they replace it with a new machine, not a refurb.
You can check the status of your repair online and my console is apparently now on the way back to me. Or, rather, it is not. A refurb is on its way, it appears. You have to register your console's serial number on the XBox site, and my serial number has now changed, so I am not getting back the machine I sent off - and, even worse, the serial number suggets it is a refurb.
The main reason I refuse to sit back and accept a refurbished console lies with the warranty that comes with it - which only covers you for three months. So, if four months from now, this previously broken console that they have managed to somehow patch up conks out again, I am left high and dry with no option but to pay £65 to have it repaired or buy a new one.
If the XBox was a reliable bit of kit which that rarely broke down, then maybe that would do. But for an item with such a history of faults and a high breakdown rate it is not acceptable to me.
The other, related, reason is that I have no idea how well or badly this replacement console was treated by the previous owner! He/she could have dropped it repeatedly off the top of a wardrobe for all I know, or carted it around to friends' houses, spilled beer into it, kicked it across the floor - who knows? Whereas I know that mine was pristine and sat undisturbed on it's own shelf and was not manhandled or mistreated in any way.
So... am I being unreasonable in being angry that a patched-up piece of equipment that has proven to be unreliable and unstable as it has already broken down (at least) once is being foisted on me with a very short warranty period attached? I'd be more inclined to accept a refurb - though still not thrilled - if they gave me a full 12-month warranty on it.
A quick scan of various XBox360 forums reveals that, not surprisingly, these refurbished consoles themselves have a very high re-failure rate. I'm not a very heavy gamer, so my worst fear is that since my console won't see that many hours of usage each month, a failure will take longer than might be experienced by hardcore gamers who play 8 hours a day every day and so happen just outside the three-month window.
[Not to complicate the issue but because of the high failure rate, Microsoft have extend the warranty period to three years if you get the specific RRoD fault - but since I have had one console fail with a different problem not covered by that, I am deeply worried that I will be left with a useless machine four or six or eight months from now, just over a year after splashing out £350 for it.]
Sorry this is so long. Hope it makes sense and I appreciate any thoughts about the basic issue of accepting refurbished replacements or the 360 repair situation in general.
Cheers in advance!
EDIT: Oh yeah, meant to say, the three-month warranty was activated four days ago according to the service website and runs out on December 15. According to the UPS tracking website, the parcel is still in Germany and has not even been handed over to them yet, so it's likely to be at best the middle of next week by the time it finally reaches me, which means I will have lost at least a week of the three-month warranty... :mad:
The basic question is this: if I return an electronics item, within warranty, to the manufacturer for repair and they cannot repair it, do I have to accept a refurbished replacement (ie someone else's faulty equipment that they have managed to get working again) or can I insist on a new replacement or, failing that, a refund.
The full details: My XBox360, which I bought in November 2007) started malfunctioning last month. It wasn't the common Red Ring of Death (RROD) fault but a more unusual problem with the controller input being misinterpreted.
I logged on to the Microsoft XBox registration and repair website and set the wheels in motion to return it (to the service centre in Germany) to have it repaired. The console was picked up by UPS a fortnight ago and I am waiting for it to come back.
For the uninitiated, great console though the XBox 360 is in terms of games, it has been plagued by technical problems since launch and has an incredibly high failure rate, most commonly due to overheating that causes a hardware failure (displaying the aforementioned RRoD) which renders the console completely useless.
Because of the high returns rate, it seems that MS examines your returned console and, if it looks like it may be unrepairable or that a repair is going to take a while, they simply swap your console for one previously returned by someone else which they have now gotten round to "fixing". If at some point your returned console is eventually fixed, it is added to the pool of refurb consoles sent out in the future.
Some people (claim to) have received new consoles as a replacement when their own was not repaired, so I taped a very polite note to my console stating that should they be unable to repair my own machine and send it back, I respectfully requested they replace it with a new machine, not a refurb.
You can check the status of your repair online and my console is apparently now on the way back to me. Or, rather, it is not. A refurb is on its way, it appears. You have to register your console's serial number on the XBox site, and my serial number has now changed, so I am not getting back the machine I sent off - and, even worse, the serial number suggets it is a refurb.
The main reason I refuse to sit back and accept a refurbished console lies with the warranty that comes with it - which only covers you for three months. So, if four months from now, this previously broken console that they have managed to somehow patch up conks out again, I am left high and dry with no option but to pay £65 to have it repaired or buy a new one.
If the XBox was a reliable bit of kit which that rarely broke down, then maybe that would do. But for an item with such a history of faults and a high breakdown rate it is not acceptable to me.
The other, related, reason is that I have no idea how well or badly this replacement console was treated by the previous owner! He/she could have dropped it repeatedly off the top of a wardrobe for all I know, or carted it around to friends' houses, spilled beer into it, kicked it across the floor - who knows? Whereas I know that mine was pristine and sat undisturbed on it's own shelf and was not manhandled or mistreated in any way.
So... am I being unreasonable in being angry that a patched-up piece of equipment that has proven to be unreliable and unstable as it has already broken down (at least) once is being foisted on me with a very short warranty period attached? I'd be more inclined to accept a refurb - though still not thrilled - if they gave me a full 12-month warranty on it.
A quick scan of various XBox360 forums reveals that, not surprisingly, these refurbished consoles themselves have a very high re-failure rate. I'm not a very heavy gamer, so my worst fear is that since my console won't see that many hours of usage each month, a failure will take longer than might be experienced by hardcore gamers who play 8 hours a day every day and so happen just outside the three-month window.
[Not to complicate the issue but because of the high failure rate, Microsoft have extend the warranty period to three years if you get the specific RRoD fault - but since I have had one console fail with a different problem not covered by that, I am deeply worried that I will be left with a useless machine four or six or eight months from now, just over a year after splashing out £350 for it.]
Sorry this is so long. Hope it makes sense and I appreciate any thoughts about the basic issue of accepting refurbished replacements or the 360 repair situation in general.
Cheers in advance!
EDIT: Oh yeah, meant to say, the three-month warranty was activated four days ago according to the service website and runs out on December 15. According to the UPS tracking website, the parcel is still in Germany and has not even been handed over to them yet, so it's likely to be at best the middle of next week by the time it finally reaches me, which means I will have lost at least a week of the three-month warranty... :mad:
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Comments
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Hello all. Just looking for some opinions and advice.
The basic question is this: if I return an electronics item, within warranty, to the manufacturer for repair and they cannot repair it, do I have to accept a refurbished replacement (ie someone else's faulty equipment that they have managed to get working again) or can I insist on a new replacement or, failing that, a refund.
The full details: My XBox360, which I bought in November 2007) started malfunctioning last month. It wasn't the common Red Ring of Death (RROD) fault but a more unusual problem with the controller input being misinterpreted.
I logged on to the Microsoft XBox registration and repair website and set the wheels in motion to return it (to the service centre in Germany) to have it repaired. The console was picked up by UPS a fortnight ago and I am waiting for it to come back.
For the uninitiated, great console though the XBox 360 is in terms of games, it has been plagued by technical problems since launch and has an incredibly high failure rate, most commonly due to overheating that causes a hardware failure (displaying the aforementioned RRoD) which renders the console completely useless.
Because of the high returns rate, it seems that MS examines your returned console and, if it looks like it may be unrepairable or that a repair is going to take a while, they simply swap your console for one previously returned by someone else which they have now gotten round to "fixing". If at some point your returned console is eventually fixed, it is added to the pool of refurb consoles sent out in the future.
Some people (claim to) have received new consoles as a replacement when their own was not repaired, so I taped a very polite note to my console stating that should they be unable to repair my own machine and send it back, I respectfully requested they replace it with a new machine, not a refurb.
You can check the status of your repair online and my console is apparently now on the way back to me. Or, rather, it is not. A refurb is on its way, it appears. You have to register your console's serial number on the XBox site, and my serial number has now changed, so I am not getting back the machine I sent off - and, even worse, the serial number suggets it is a refurb.
The main reason I refuse to sit back and accept a refurbished console lies with the warranty that comes with it - which only covers you for three months. So, if four months from now, this previously broken console that they have managed to somehow patch up conks out again, I am left high and dry with no option but to pay £65 to have it repaired or buy a new one.
If the XBox was a reliable bit of kit which that rarely broke down, then maybe that would do. But for an item with such a history of faults and a high breakdown rate it is not acceptable to me.
The other, related, reason is that I have no idea how well or badly this replacement console was treated by the previous owner! He/she could have dropped it repeatedly off the top of a wardrobe for all I know, or carted it around to friends' houses, spilled beer into it, kicked it across the floor - who knows? Whereas I know that mine was pristine and sat undisturbed on it's own shelf and was not manhandled or mistreated in any way.
So... am I being unreasonable in being angry that a patched-up piece of equipment that has proven to be unreliable and unstable as it has already broken down (at least) once is being foisted on me with a very short warranty period attached? I'd be more inclined to accept a refurb - though still not thrilled - if they gave me a full 12-month warranty on it.
A quick scan of various XBox360 forums reveals that, not surprisingly, these refurbished consoles themselves have a very high re-failure rate. I'm not a very heavy gamer, so my worst fear is that since my console won't see that many hours of usage each month, a failure will take longer than might be experienced by hardcore gamers who play 8 hours a day every day and so happen just outside the three-month window.
[Not to complicate the issue but because of the high failure rate, Microsoft have extend the warranty period to three years if you get the specific RRoD fault - but since I have had one console fail with a different problem not covered by that, I am deeply worried that I will be left with a useless machine four or six or eight months from now, just over a year after splashing out £350 for it.]
Sorry this is so long. Hope it makes sense and I appreciate any thoughts about the basic issue of accepting refurbished replacements or the 360 repair situation in general.
Cheers in advance!
EDIT: Oh yeah, meant to say, the three-month warranty was activated four days ago according to the service website and runs out on December 15. According to the UPS tracking website, the parcel is still in Germany and has not even been handed over to them yet, so it's likely to be at best the middle of next week by the time it finally reaches me, which means I will have lost at least a week of the three-month warranty... :mad:
Your rights on the refurb will be the exact same as on your original or if it was replaced with a new one
Stop moaning0 -
why didn`t you return it to the place you bought it from? you could then have got either a refund or replacement (best to go for refund then re buy the item for a fresh guarantee) i`d never accept a "refurb" on something so new0
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And how is a three month warranty "exactly the same" as a one-year warranty that comes with a new console?LinasPilibaitisisbatman wrote: »Your rights on the refurb will be the exact same as on your original or if it was replaced with a new one
Stop moaning
As for "Stop moaning", kindly keep your ignorant, insulting comments to yourself.0 -
Fair point. Yes, with hindsight, that would indeed have been worth trying first. That said, I bought it from Argos and, judging by searches of various forums, they are apparently particularly bad at accepting responsibility for replacement 360s and refer everyone to Microsoft, even under threat of the Sale Of Goods Act.why didn`t you return it to the place you bought it from? you could then have got either a refund or replacement (best to go for refund then re buy the item for a fresh guarantee) i`d never accept a "refurb" on something so new
Even if you do get them to accept responsibility, their obligation is only to repair or replace, so it could still have ended up back at Microsoft (albeit Argos having the inconvenience of sending it back for repair rather than me).0 -
If you bought your last console in November 07 and it's now been replaced with a new warranty taking you up to December 08, then that's a whole month longer that you would have got with your original console. (i.e. if you didn't develop this fault, but it did develop one at the beginning of december, you'd be out your warranty period...)
That said, the warranty technically means nothing. Under the SOGA, you can request that they repair any faults that occur within a reasonable shelf life of the product, up to a maximum of 6 years. I'd expect an XBOX360 to last around 3 years...
(ps - Go for a PS3 - they're much better!!)Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
If you bought your last console in November 07 and it's now been replaced with a new warranty taking you up to December 08, then that's a whole month longer that you would have got with your original console. (i.e. if you didn't develop this fault, but it did develop one at the beginning of december, you'd be out your warranty period...)
That said, the warranty technically means nothing. Under the SOGA, you can request that they repair any faults that occur within a reasonable shelf life of the product, up to a maximum of 6 years. I'd expect an XBOX360 to last around 3 years...
(ps - Go for a PS3 - they're much better!!)
Thanks pinkshoes! I prefer the line-up of games on the 360, but the PS3 is good too.
Yes, you're obviously correct about the warranty running a month longer.
I'd have been happy to accept a three-month warranty add-on to my own console had they repaired it and sent it back because I know that, aside from the fault that developed, it was in pristine condition, had been well-treated, not knocked about or otherwise abused or run into the ground.
I have no idea about the history of this replacement, how many hours a week it was used, how it was treated, not even how many times it has been through the repair process.
In those circumstances, and given the well-publicised reliability problems with the 360, and the high failure rate of refurbs, three months piece of mind is not nearly adequate.
I take your point about the SOGA - however, technically by getting MS to repair it I believe the shop are no longer responsible? And like I said, Argos have a reputation for playing hardball over the 360, due to the high number of returns, even when threatened with SOGA.0 -
I would think there is another issue here as well. If it is replaced with a different unit then presumably your rights under the SOGA with the original seller are null and void as well, due to the fact that if it gets another fault the shop can quite rightly state that they did not supply that piece of equipment so your rights are gone!!!0
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Yes, this was what I was alluding to in the last paragraph of my previous post.I would think there is another issue here as well. If it is replaced with a different unit then presumably your rights under the SOGA with the original seller are null and void as well, due to the fact that if it gets another fault the shop can quite rightly state that they did not supply that piece of equipment so your rights are gone!!!0
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