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power factor reducer/power saver plug - do they work?

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  • Does anybody know where I can buy an Ego Factor Correction reducer.
  • espresso
    espresso Posts: 16,448 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    mirabelle wrote: »
    Does anybody know where I can buy an Ego Factor Correction reducer.

    Not required, what you really need is a bullsh!te detector!

    :rolleyes:
    :doh: Blue text on this forum usually signifies hyperlinks, so click on them!..:wall:
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,059 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Rampant Recycler
    mirabelle wrote: »
    Cardew - Why are you so horrible to Fatlad1971. Please kiss and make up.

    The reason Fatlad intervened in this thread was simply his way of attempting to get 'revenge' for being corrected in another thread he started; it was mischievious.

    The OP's question was answered factually. Even if Fatlad was correct in his statement(and he was so very clearly wrong - as most of his posts have been) it was nothing to do with the OP's question.

    He has just joined, and proclaims himself to be an expert(which he clearly ain't), in order to spam MSE with a discredited trade association.
  • Cardew wrote: »
    The reason Fatlad intervened in this thread was simply his way of attempting to get 'revenge' for being corrected in another thread he started; it was mischievious.

    The OP's question was answered factually. Even if Fatlad was correct in his statement(and he was so very clearly wrong - as most of his posts have been) it was nothing to do with the OP's question.

    He has just joined, and proclaims himself to be an expert(which he clearly ain't), in order to spam MSE with a discredited trade association.


    I suppose at least he's made it clear from the outset he works in the industry, not something that's so common on here ;). My pack mentality description stands. There would be people who would view this sort of 'several posters against one' type scenario as bullying. Your recent behaviour, Cardew, for instance, has started to resemble Herbert Lom's brilliant portrayal of Chief Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther films :eek: Even people who respect and like you have seen reason to put friendship to one side and publicly advise you to calm down. I think you should listen to that advice, if only for the benefit of your health, Cardew (the improving of the atmosphere of the board would be a welcome, though less important, by-product).
    Call me Carmine....

    HAVE YOU SEEN QUENTIN'S CASHBACK CARD??
  • Incisor
    Incisor Posts: 2,271 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    I suppose at least he's made it clear from the outset he works in the industry, not something that's so common on here ;).
    All the more reason to be hard on him.
    My pack mentality description stands. There would be people who would view this sort of 'several posters against one' type scenario as bullying. Your recent behaviour, Cardew, for instance, has started to resemble Herbert Lom's brilliant portrayal of Chief Inspector Dreyfus in the Pink Panther films :eek: Even people who respect and like you have seen reason to put friendship to one side and publicly advise you to calm down. I think you should listen to that advice, if only for the benefit of your health, Cardew (the improving of the atmosphere of the board would be a welcome, though less important, by-product).
    Now play that through again, taking into account the fact that fatlad's advice is plainly wrong or false. This is not touchy feely valuing Cardew's opinion against fatlad's opinion, where both are equally valid. This is years of doing the maths studying hard facts where Cardew is correct and fatlad is plainly mistaken - and it is verifiable [but I imagine that very few of those who look at this from a touchy feely all opinions equal perspective would really appreciate the maths that go with the verification].
    After the uprising of the 17th June The Secretary of the Writers Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?
  • Incisor wrote: »
    All the more reason to be hard on him.


    Now play that through again, taking into account the fact that fatlad's advice is plainly wrong or false. This is not touchy feely valuing Cardew's opinion against fatlad's opinion, where both are equally valid. This is years of doing the maths studying hard facts where Cardew is correct and fatlad is plainly mistaken - and it is verifiable [but I imagine that very few of those who look at this from a touchy feely all opinions equal perspective would really appreciate the maths that go with the verification].

    where Am i wrong ? what Ive stated is correct
    the point is You have no idea either way ,

    your just going along with what cardew has said
    which in its self is fairly worrying , the fact that you continue to bleat on about it is even more worrying
  • Incisor
    Incisor Posts: 2,271 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    fatlad1971 wrote: »
    where Am i wrong ? what Ive stated is correct
    the point is You have no idea either way ,

    your just going along with what cardew has said
    which in its self is fairly worrying , the fact that you continue to bleat on about it is even more worrying

    Where are you wrong? Post 3 where you say: "There is no such thing as power factor in electricity metering domestic or industrial
    Maximum demand and HH sites have Kva charges , power factor does not exist"
    Sorry, I do have an idea, I am similarly qualified to Cardew and in my own right I say you are wrong. I have done the maths and the theory, spent years working on it, so there are no lessons you can give to Cardew or myself on this subject.

    What you have said is false. The fact that Cardew and I are taking you on should only be worrying to you if you think you have some kind of a reputation to uphold. To everyone else, it should be somewhat reassuring.
    After the uprising of the 17th June The Secretary of the Writers Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?
  • Incisor wrote: »
    Where are you wrong? Post 3 where you say: "There is no such thing as power factor in electricity metering domestic or industrial
    Maximum demand and HH sites have Kva charges , power factor does not exist"
    Sorry, I do have an idea, I am similarly qualified to Cardew and in my own right I say you are wrong. I have done the maths and the theory, spent years working on it, so there are no lessons you can give to Cardew or myself on this subject.

    What you have said is false. The fact that Cardew and I are taking you on should only be worrying to you if you think you have some kind of a reputation to uphold. To everyone else, it should be somewhat reassuring.

    what i will do then
    is upload a bill from one of my clients with a HH site and show you that
    "There is no such thing as power factor in electricity metering domestic or industrial
    Maximum demand and HH sites have Kva charges , power factor does not exist"

    It doesn't , its not billed for nor metered for

    once i have shown this will you admit you are wrong ?
  • Incisor
    Incisor Posts: 2,271 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    fatlad1971 wrote: »
    what i will do then
    is upload a bill from one of my clients with a HH site and show you that
    "There is no such thing as power factor in electricity metering domestic or industrial
    Maximum demand and HH sites have Kva charges , power factor does not exist"

    It doesn't , its not billed for nor metered for

    once i have shown this will you admit you are wrong ?

    You can upload what you like. Meters take account of power factor in their various ways.

    Domestic meters account for it entirely and factor it in completely to the reading [they integrate the product of current, voltage and power factor over the meter reading period [or from the moment of leaving the factory, but that's another story]] to give a kWh [energy] reading. So power factor would not show up on a domestic bill, but it certainly exists in the domestic situation.

    Industrial meters integrate the product of current, voltage and power factor to produce a kWh [energy] reading in the same way as domestic meters, but over 3 phases. They also integrate the product of current and voltage over 30 minute periods without power factor and record the peak half hour integrated product of current and voltage to give a peak half hour KVA reading. This punishes industrial users for poor power factor on machinery. Again, power factor is not mentioned on the bill.

    So, post your bills, power factor does not appear, but despite what you say, it does exist. You might as well post Magna Carta for all the good it will do you in proving that Power Factor does not exist.
    After the uprising of the 17th June The Secretary of the Writers Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?
  • This is about getting information correct, not egos.

    I've had a quick read up on the theory and can see roughly what it's about. ie: inductive and capacitive loads causing a phase difference between voltage and current. The result of a low power factor is that higher current is drawn for the same output power.

    This is inconsistent though:
    Cardew wrote:
    However in domestic properties your electricity meter only measures in Watts(kWh) and that is all you are charged for -kWhs. So your power factor doesn't matter.
    Domestic meters account for it entirely and factor it in completely to the reading [they integrate the product of current, voltage and power factor over the meter reading period [or from the moment of leaving the factory, but that's another story]] to give a kWh [energy]

    I found this:
    We're in the UK so the Supply Authority only charges for kWhrs NOT kVAhrs (at the time of writing this)

    So meters only measure the kWh. A poor power factor will not change the kWh. It will cause the true kVA to rise, but noone is measuring that.

    I assume that the same applies to industrial situations. The suppliers monitor the power factor so they can charge those with poor values more. If they charged in kVA units then they wouldn't bother - they'd be measuring the true consumption to start with.


    From what I've read, a domestic meter calculates the instantaneous value of
    Voltage x Current and then integrates that over time.

    Hence if the current is given a phase lag relative to the voltage, and a corresponding increase in amplitude, it will make no difference to the measured quantity.
    Happy chappy
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