Energy Prices--A Brokers View--

icefall

fatlad1971 wrote: »

Hello All,
Just like to add my two pence worth to the debate regarding energy prices.
Firstly I am an energy consultant; I’ve been working in the industry for over a decade and negotiate commercial contracts for SME and public sector clients.

The price of oil is only loosely linked to the price of electricity.
The price of gas in Europe is largely linked to oil and the UK and European energy markets are interacting more by the year, this has had a knock-on effect on the price of gas in the UK. The main driver of high gas prices in the UK is lack of storage capacity.

First point
power companies responsibility is to their shareholders NOT YOU

secondly
Energy costs are falling in the medium term and will peak around Jan 09 they will steadily drop from this point , in my opinion.

Thirdly
many of the horror stories of unrelenting price increases are coming from the power companies, they want people to take long term fixed price capped tariffs, with the unit rate set when the pricing curve is at the top of its cycle; it is good business for them.

If you are a domestic energy consumer be very careful with comparison websites, many use smoke and mirrors with regards to standing charges and first and secondary rate unit rates. Remember these sites are businesses that earn commission from supplier’s .Don’t take it as gospel that a new tariff will save you money. Get out you calculator and do the maths yourself.

If you are a business customer use a established Consultant / broker and make sure they are accredited with the UIA ( http://www.uia.org.uk/ ) . Using a member of the UIA will mean your broker works to a high standard and you have full recourse if they don’t do a good job. Your consultant will also have in-depth knowledge of the market and also the pitfalls of certain suppliers.

Interesting stuff thanks for your input. Given me something to think about.

Cardew

fatlad1971 wrote: »

Thank you very much for your input Cardew

According to this data you are offering as evidence it says the average price of gas in the UK is 7.06 pence per kWh and France is currently 5.59 pence per kWh, Also the French pay no standing charge, so i am afraid you are quite clearly wrong. Extra storage capacity acts as a buffer against market volatility.
Also this data that you are wrong representing is gas data for June,,,,, Hello June
,,Gas prices are supply driven , what do you think the need is for gas in June.

It also clearly states in this web page that our electricity unit rate is considerably higher than France. Once again the French pay no metering charges for domestic consumption.

French business/ commercial energy is as much as 30% cheaper than the UK.

So clearly you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.

With regards to the UIA
If you had bothered to read the information available on there Website you would know that only the UIA offers a legal recourse to customers of members who have been misrepresented. No other body is doing that.
UIA members have also helped Berr with recommendations for the new energy ombudsman , to make it fairer and easier for SME businesses to have recourse to energy company tactics.

The only person with the brass neck to say energy prices in this country are cheap is an energy company employee or someone who should be under a care in the community order of some sort.

Do you work for an energy supplier Cardew ?

Firstly the prices quoted for Europe are in an official European Commission Document. - That is the link I gave above.

Where from that table do you get an average price of 7.06p a kWh for domestic gas?

I quoted the figure in post #2 above - namely "the price of a kWh in Euros was UK = 0.048"

Have you understood that? - Euros(not pence) and domestic prices(criteria as stated in post #2 and not industrial prices.

Now taking today's exchange rate of £1=1.27 Euro that makes the average price of a kWh of gas to be 3.78p

So as you are playing the expert, please inform me where you get a figure of 7.06p from.

Start by answering that question.

"Hallo June" "Demand in June" - "Gas prices are supply driven"!!!!

Those must be about the most crass remarks on this forum coming from a self proclaimed expert - that table is giving prices paid by domestic consumers and in case you didn't know they don't fluctuate according to the wholesale market price.

As for your trade association, well I have no idea of its value - but a fellow broker seems to think it is a joke.

My point is that these trade associations spring up all over the place, virtually anyone can join, and generally serve no purpose for the public.

If your input above is representative of members then it would appear that BusinessEnergyBroker may have a point.

BusinessEnergyBroker

the only people who fear us are the dodgy brokers that we are closing down and referring to the office of fair trading on almost a weekly basis.

Nice to hear it too! I hope you are also looking within your own organisation

The UIA is a throughly respected body within the industry , the only people who fear us are the dodgy brokers that we are closing down and referring to the office of fair trading on almost a weekly basis.

The UIA do not have the power to close a gate never mind someones business, dodgy or otherwise

Its just a shame that out of all of the dodgy brokers that are out there you havent managed to close down any that are causing the major problems!

If you say that some of the dodgy brokers have been closed down (by you - UIA) then there couldn't possibly be any comeback on you if you posted a list.

Care to do so?

I'm sure other members on here would like to see one as well.

You may have a seat on the council, it could be any council however based on your comments so far I doubt that you actually have any active involvement with the UIA other than being a member of it.

fatlad1971

BusinessEnergyBroker wrote: »

Nice to hear it too! I hope you are also looking within your own organisation



The UIA do not have the power to close a gate never mind someones business, dodgy or otherwise

Its just a shame that out of all of the dodgy brokers that are out there you havent managed to close down any that are causing the major problems!

If you say that some of the dodgy brokers have been closed down (by you - UIA) then there couldn't possibly be any comeback on you if you posted a list.

Care to do so?

I'm sure other members on here would like to see one as well.

You may have a seat on the council, it could be any council however based on your comments so far I doubt that you actually have any active involvement with the UIA other than being a member of it.

Thanks for your feedback once again
I'm not going to get into one with you about this, all i will say is the UIA has passed information and evidence ( verbal recordings and the like ) to the OFT and well as the suppliers taking Business from these rouge brokers.
Many are ongoing and to post details as I am sure you know would leave me open to legal action.

I know a lot of brokers all over the country , most are not members of the UIA , all are good honest and professional brokers .

I am not saying if a broker is not a member they must be rogues

But and its a big but
Only Members of the UIA offer full legal recourse to a client who is misrepresented .

If you have any complaint about a member of the UIA may i suggest you email the UIA with the details. Feel free to PM me with any details if you wish.

Cardew

Fatlad1971,

It seems that BusinessEnergyBroker has well and truly called your bluff, and he and I have(gently) crossed swords.

Your reply is quite typical of this type of self-serving, self important, trade organisation.

Anyone can set up such an association - and then try to promote it on sites such as MSE. You have absolutely no status, except that you have awarded to yourself, no exams, no qualifications, no inspectors - in short nothing.

Now unless you want to totally lose any credibility, you really ought to reply to the points I made in post #13, if nothing else to repay the support you have received from the Board troll.

BusinessEnergyBroker

all i will say is the UIA has passed information and evidence ( verbal recordings and the like ) to the OFT and well as the suppliers taking Business from these rouge brokers

.

So have we, and let me tell you there are suppliers out there that turn a blind eye to it and I have the proof to back that up. We have forwarded full call recordings regarding companies such as CP,MRS,CED and number of others and nothing has been done about it, either by the suppliers or by OFT / Trading standards. Many of them arent known to suppliers by their trading names as this is just for the "customers" benefit and they trade financially under different names.

Just because you have forwarded details doesnt mean that you have closed them down. As I stated the UIA doesnt have the power to close a gate.

I would give anyone on this forum a 100% guarantee that the UIA havent been involved in or assisted with closing down any "dodgy " brokerage.

Only Members of the UIA offer full legal recourse to a client who is misrepresented

From the information that I have I would say that you are going to need to.

BusinessEnergyBroker

By the way fatlad

One more thing for those that are intrested one of the commercial suppliers ( mentioned on here a few times) MAY i repeat MAY be going tits up in the next few days. It that happens and you are a customer of this company who has been automatically renewed at high rates, get out quick during the confusion and get yourself into a 12or 24 month deal as prices are dropping

You shouldn't be advising members of any particular contract length. Its their choice. If you are one of these

Your consultant will also have in-depth knowledge

then you will also know that any length of contract be it from 6 months to 5 years can be a risk. Its the clients choice as to how much risk they wish to expose themselves not yours.

We both know which supplier you are talking about and yet again I can tell you it is just based on unfounded rumors again as they nearly always are. I suspect that your knowledge of the industry really is minimal. I mean surely you are aware of the terms and condtions of supplier contracts that allows the supplier to transfer the contract to an alternative provider in the event that they go into adminstration etc (or even without this happening)?

You should also be aware that the liabilities of the contract are also transfered to the alternative provider and the customer contract will remain in place unless the alternative provider states otherwise.

It appears to me that you just wish to try and (unjustly) glorify the UIA.

As Cardew said

Your reply is quite typical of this type of self-serving, self important, trade organisation.

fatlad1971

BusinessEnergyBroker wrote: »

By the way fatlad



You shouldn't be advising members of any particular contract length. Its their choice. If you are one of these



then you will also know that any length of contract be it from 6 months to 5 years can be a risk. Its the clients choice as to how much risk they wish to expose themselves not yours.

We both know which supplier you are talking about and yet again I can tell you it is just based on unfounded rumors again as they nearly always are. I suspect that your knowledge of the industry really is minimal. I mean surely you are aware of the terms and condtions of supplier contracts that allows the supplier to transfer the contract to an alternative provider in the event that they go into adminstration etc (or even without this happening)?

You should also be aware that the liabilities of the contract are also transfered to the alternative provider and the customer contract will remain in place unless the alternative provider states otherwise.

It appears to me that you just wish to try and (unjustly) glorify the UIA.

As Cardew said

Like Ive said Im not really interested in scoring points or being the "top boy" on energy:rolleyes2

All i will say is that my knowledge of the SME energy sector is in depth and i advise many businesses on a day to day Basis.

One thing i find astounding is your comment on advising on contract term for a client. That is the most important thing we do , we are paid for our price trend analysis. This is the second biggest issue behind market timing

whether you feel i am competent or not doesn't really matter, the public sector , bluechip and SME customers that use my services year upon year have complete faith in my company .

Also you are right with regards to any supplier that goes tits up being placed with a supplier of last resort.The point is, it is possible to switch as there is a period ( as has happened with eron ,Greenwich etc ) that no one will actually object to your transfer. As Im sure you and most people know BG took over eron , still over 15% of erons customers moved ( objection free) within the first 3 months before BG was in a position to retain these customers.

Like i said if you wont to argue for the sake of it and wont to prove that you are the top boy with regards to business energy , then please feel free

Im just too busy for it , and i also have a large tumbler of remy martin calling my name

Regards :beer:

Cardew

fatlad1971 wrote: »

Im just too busy for it , and i also have a large tumbler of remy martin calling my name

Regards :beer:

You are also too busy I assume to concede that your post #3 about European prices is a complete nonsense.

The Board troll is depending on you to justify his intervention!!

You really are out of your depth!

c0113tt3

I personally think, its very good of energy brokers giving another perspective on the board, and appreciative of it. I certainly do not know enough of energy markets etc.. to comment myself.

But, what I would like to say. Cardew I have the greatest respect for you, but lately you appear almost aggressive. By all means discuss and even challenge, as you do know quite a lot yourself, but calm down a little. The brokers have come on here to inform of their point of view, and it's not as though he has to or needs to, and just wishes to point a few things out even if you may disagree with it.

As for board troll comments m8, its time that was laid to rest now, dont you think? If anything its making you look the bad guy.