Lloyds TSB business account: security transfer, very poor service

pduk

Hello all,

I've been reading Martin's wonderful site for ages now but never contributed to the forums before today. However I have a situation that's making me hopping mad, and I thought you folks would be good people to share it with I've been with Lloyds as a personal customer for about 22 years, and as a business customer for 2.5 years. I am a self employed IT consultant. When I set my account up I took out an overdraft facility and also a business startup loan that are secured against my home via a second charge.

Happily for me I will be getting married next year sometime - the date is not set yet - and we are in the middle of buying a home together. One of the things I have to do is to arrange to transfer the 2nd charge to the new house as I'm not ready to discharge the loan yet and want to keep the overdraft. My business manager has made a complete pigs ear of it so far (see detail below) and I am in danger of losing my purchase and of my buyer losing patience and pulling out. My fiance had to exchange contracts on her place last week since she had promised her buyers, so she is having to put everything in storage (costing about 500 pounds) and will have to come and live with me in my small house for the duration.

As far as I am concerned the bank is moving so profoundly slow on this, and keep changing their story. I have a complaint in with them at the moment through their dedicated customer care number, who referred me to the manager of the business unit... who has not yet returned my call. My buyer's solicitors are making noises about pulling out. I'm reaching my wits end to be honest. Anyone have any bright ideas about anything else I can try?

Regards

Paul.

Names changed to protect the guilty

October 31. Following advice from his solicitor, Paul calls the Lloyds securities centre to find out what is involved with transferring the 2nd charge on <address> to the new property <address>. This charge is a guarantee for £30,000, consisting of 10K for overdraft and 20K for startup loan. Paul is informed that the request has to come from the business account manager. Paul calls his account manager who is not available. Leaves message.

November 1. Account manager <old account manager> returns the call. Says that he is ceasing to be account manager at the end of the week and asks Paul to send requests to <new account manager>. Paul rings his solicitor and asks her to contact <new account manager>.

November 2. Paul receives a letter from his solicitor confirming she has written to <new account manager>. Paul writes his own letter to <new account manager> to confirm the instructions and encloses a copy of the mortgage valuation, with a query regarding whether the bank will be prepared to use that rather than use their own. Paul also stresses that the matter is time-sensitive and asks for matters to be expedited.

November 4. Paul receives call from <new account manager>. <new account manager> indicates bank may be able to use existing valuation but will need a copy addressed to the bank. Surveyor is not available until afternoon of Monday 7th. <new account manager> says that all being well the matter will be closed by end of Friday November 11.

November 9. Paul calls <new account manager> again for an update as there has been no communication. He learns that during his relocation to a new branch <new account manager> lost all his document boxes via TNT courier and had therefore not been able to find Paul’s information to contact him and ask for copies. Paul gives <new account manager> all required info again over the telephone. Paul writes a letter of complaint to <new account manager> and encloses fresh paper copies of everything.

<new account manager> calls again later that day to say that the surveyor has agreed to supply required valuation for a fee of £35.

November 10. Paul calls <new account manager> again, he says he has not received the valuation yet. Paul asks for an estimate of turnaround time and is shocked to hear that 3-6 weeks is the norm but <new account manager> will try for 3 working days.

November 11. <new account manager> calls Paul to say that the surveyor won’t supply a copy after all as the bank’s conditions are deemed unacceptable so he will have to do a bank survey after all.

November 15. Paul calls <new account manager> and ascertains that a driveby valuation has been ordered but not done yet. Once received, total turnaround is 1 working day for <new account manager> then 2-3 days for Lloyds TSB security centre before my solicitor has the required documents and we can exchange contracts.

Later the same day Paul receives a call from <new account manager> to say that it is to be a “full service” valuation after all, costing £250.

November 16. Paul calls <new account manager> to check on the valuation, since he realises <new account manager> doesn’t have details of the vendors or the estate agents thus will be unable to arrange a survey. <new account manager> takes the required information.

November 18. Paul hears from the vendors (not <new account manager>) that valuation is scheduled for Monday November 21.

November 21. Paul hears from the vendors that the valuation was done and the surveyor seemed satisfied.

November 22. Paul calls <new account manager> and is surprised to find that <new account manager> does not appear to know that the survey has been done yet, and is even more astonished to be asked to call back on Friday 25th at which time he should have received the valuation and will move onto the next step (releasing the case to the securities centre, who were the people originally contacted on October 31).

Meanwhile extreme pressure is being applied from vendors and the buyer of Paul’s property, and his fiancé is forced to exchange contracts on her own flat early and thus put her possessions into storage while the matter lumbers on. Paul's solicitor has yet to hear anything from Lloyds TSB, not even a reply to her first letter.

Older_but_not_wiser_2

Having worked for the then TSB (Scotland) at one point, and being similarly shafted for a mortgage when I left ( withdrew offer 1 week before completion leaving me with a bridging loan ), I find that this does not surprise me in the slightest.

Most banks are scheisters, but the Black Horse mob take the biscuit.

Hope everything works out well for you in the end though. It did for me, but only because I went to the Bank of Scotland.

pduk

Thanks for the reply!

Well, I ended up writing to the "Customer Care Team" yesterday with a more formal version of what I posted here. It was quite therapeutic to write it all out like that. As far as I understand it they will now have an obligation to investigate it under the banking code of practice. I'll let you know what happens.

I'm pretty much resolved to change banks once this mess is out of the way so I'll be on the lookout here for good recommendations for business as well as personal banking.

Paul.

pduk

By way of an update....

After I posted them a complaint letter, my fiancee (who also is the secretary of my small limited company) decided to fan the flames herself and rang the bank, and somehow (she can be a devil on the phone!) managed to get the direct number of a very senior person in Corporate Banking. He's probably more suited to multi million pound PLC's than private small companies, but he was amazingly good, took ownership of the issue and kicked up noise within the bank.

I got a phone call from their securities centre yesterday to say that they were releasing the charge on my sale property and that my solicitor will have the necessary paperwork today (Friday) or Monday. They will put the charge on the new property on when the admin processes are completed, but they are prepared to treat me an an "unsecured" loan/overdraft for the interim.

They also admitted that my business manager had been guilty of overpromising but denied that he'd made blunders as such; they did however put blame on the original business manager, who got replaced, for not starting the process off prior to handover.

They also are considering reducing the fees charged to me for the security transfer since they "did not provide an optimal service in this case". They're also looking at giving me a different business manager since I've completely lost faith in the current one.

If, and I do mean if, this all comes true, the bank will have redeemed itself somewhat, though we are still moving our joint account elsewhere (probably to Smile).

One other thing to note. We were told in great detail how processes within Lloyds work. Everything is still paper based and communication within departments in the bank takes place by overnight letter. So for example, when my manager decided to order the valuation he sent a letter to the relevant team within Lloyds (1 day delay at least) who then sent a letter to the surveyor (1 day delay at least) who then wrote back with confirmation of the date (1 day... well, you get the idea).

The inefficiency of such a process in todays fast moving age goes some way to showing why it is that the bank appears as a slow lumbering giant. I imagine it is still done this way to guarantee availability of an paper trail, for accountability/compliance purposes, but I personally believe a suitable secure email/process management system should be able to replace this, and told them so in no uncertain terms. Do other banks still work like this, I wonder?

Thanks (and sorry for the long post)

Paul.

pduk

Final update (sorry, I know this is quite a boring topic but just in case anyone is following it..).

The bank issued a discharge on my property which was received by my solicitor yesterday, and we hope to exchange contracts today. They are waiving the security transfer fee though I still have to pay for the valuation and solicitor fees related to the security. I'm also being given a new business manager since I have no confidence in the old one any more.

I am now in two minds about whether or not to change banks for my business account when things calm down, but at least the main problem has been resolved.

Paul.