XL....MONEYSAVING IS NOT the be all & end-all-a lesson learnt

TRAVELMAN_2

Hello all,

Short & sweet....if your xl.com/freedom/kosmar...etc were booked AS PAPRT OF A COMPLETE ATOL PACKAGE then you would have been entitled to a FULL REFUND &/or a re-book to a different flight AT THE ATOL-HOLDERS EXPENSE.

If you booked flights & accom separately through several of the ...ahem...'web' companies touted about here as being the 'moneysaving' solution...then YES-money back IF flights booked thorough an ATOL company (ie freedom flights) BUT you'd need to re-book your own flights-AT WHATEVER THE FLIGHTS WERE NOW-MOST INCREASED BY A HUGE AMMOUNT. Nett result-MONEY LOST.

If you've booked with xl.com with a debit card then NO REFUND.

I am deeply sorry for those who have lost money...BUT the main reason decent agents DO NOT post/help on here is that we spend a lot of time-find you an ATOL PROTECTED PACKAGE which you guys proceed to take & look around...in many cases booking accom/flts separately via the web.

Moral is...for the sake of that extra £100 or so on say an £800 holiday you would have had a fully protected atol holiday with re-booked flights or a full refund.

SO-MONEYSAVING IS NOT THE BE-ALL & END ALL FOR HOLIDAYS AS I/MANY OTHERS HAVE SAID & WHICH IS WHY MOST AGENTS IGNORE THIS THREAD.

A harsh lesson learnt.

rosstar1

:mad: :mad: i am not affected but all i can say is hope nothing like this happens to you. You sound so smug and enjoying peoples misfortune.SAD OR SICK!!!.........BOTH I THINK. Anyone else agree?????

TRAVELMAN_2

Not smug-feel for those who've lost out. But a lot of agents have wasted a lot of time trying to help people on here-we quote ATOL protected deals that of course include agent commision/profit ( a devil-word on here!)-& people just go & book the bits themselves separately & THEN call us back 7 say 'can you beat this'??!!

Moneysaving in most spheres is GREAT but just not worth the risk on the 'once-a year' family holiday.

foxystoat69

I booked direct with xl.com, without checking to see if the website was ATOL etc bonded (after all, you don't expect the third biggest operator in the UK to go to the dogs.......)

However, Travelman, there's a bit of scaremongering with your post about the "debit card - losing your money" statement.

Without mSE I would never have found out about Visa Chargeback, so 'm not giving up hope of reclaiming my money yet

albalad

rosstar1 wrote: »

:mad: :mad: i am not affected but all i can say is hope nothing like this happens to you. You sound so smug and enjoying peoples misfortune.SAD OR SICK!!!.........BOTH I THINK. Anyone else agree?????

No , i do not agree , through the years there have been a few agents who would spend a great deal of time and effort on mse finding deals for people. (most for personal gain, obviously)

Tm the extra £100 you mention can be the difference between some people being able to afford a holiday or not .
is this not the case even in high street T agencies ? more and more people are using agents purely to research their holiday .

this is not a harsh lesson learned , rather just a fact of life in todays financial climate.

Always_Harassed

I haven't book with a travel agent for years. At the start it was nothing to do with the money. I found that most of them were pushing holiday at you that were nowhere near your requirements. Friend who worked for top agent confirmed that they were pressured into selling something even if it did not meet needs.

Feel heartily sorry for people who have lost money and holidays and think it I too soon to preach told you so message.

ailuro2

Travelman - you're all heart, aren't you?

There will be an option available soon to take out insurance against the low price flight provider of choice going bust - that will likely be a lot less than the £100 extra (or over 12%) of the cost of an £800 holiday that you're recommending.

Package holidays are often cheaper,( if you want a fortnight in Turkey in november) but for those of us who want to travel a bit off the beaten track we can save hundreds of pounds booking it online separately.

Tojo_Ralph

.....
Whilst my heart goes out to the poor sods who have been caught up in the whole XL, Zoom, etc debarcle, and had holidays ruined, I have to say that whilst it won't be a popular opinion I agree with the crux of what Travelman is saying.

For some, price is the be all and end all and the retailers standard of customer service, their customer care, etc are irrelevant, however it is hard to condemn such a mentality, because it is the one that this site promotes, it encourages people to seek out the cheapest, to exploit loopholes and take "consumer revenge" on a company, even if that person has never dealt with said company before!!!

If someone is buying a DVD from an online retailer then of course, purchasing from the cheapest holds no problems, but when purchasing services, the cheap is God mentality really doesn't work ...... IMHO

saintscouple

TRAVELMAN wrote: »

Hello all,

Short & sweet....if your xl.com/freedom/kosmar...etc were booked AS PAPRT OF A COMPLETE ATOL PACKAGE then you would have been entitled to a FULL REFUND &/or a re-book to a different flight AT THE ATOL-HOLDERS EXPENSE.

If you booked flights & accom separately through several of the ...ahem...'web' companies touted about here as being the 'moneysaving' solution...then YES-money back IF flights booked thorough an ATOL company (ie freedom flights) BUT you'd need to re-book your own flights-AT WHATEVER THE FLIGHTS WERE NOW-MOST INCREASED BY A HUGE AMMOUNT. Nett result-MONEY LOST........................

I'm still confused on this.............

We booked our holiday through Global Late Deals.com, whereby flights were with XL - accommodation through 'Triton'.

i have tried, and tried, and tried to get hold of the agent, but the only thing they will say is that they are working through those effect by departure date and that they will call me.

I've looked at the t&c's and it does state they will 'offer' an alternative holiday at no extra expense to us (or refund if lesser value), if unacceptable we can choose another holiday but pay the extra if required, or have a full 'quick' refund.

Can Travelman, or anyone else please very if the printed t&c's are correct, or indeed are they 'required' to offer an alternative flight to my original destination?

If the latter is correct, a link to the ATOL term would be appreciated for referral.

Thanks in advance.

MidlandsMum

The travel agent in me really thinks this situation has been brought on by consumers themselves. The have constantly demanded cheaper and cheaper holidays and airfares as if they are some sort of right and not any sort of luxury or privilege. This has meant that many tour ops and airlines have seen their net profits cut down and down year on year so when the proverbial hit the fan (rate of the euro, spiralling fuel costs) there was nothing or even very little in the pot to cover these costs.

I will echo these comments on why travel agents get such bad press. Again, customers have demanded heavier and heavier discounting all the time, meaning agencies have to keep their costs down, which really means paying their staff less, which means well travelled, experienced staff cant afford to work for them. For me, I cant see the point in putting my confidence in some 19 year old on minimum wage who has maybe been to ibiza a couple of times with her pals. Most of the holidays she will be expected to be selling she could never even dream of affording in a hundred years. I'm lucky that I work now for a well established agency that sees it's way by paying a decent wage to experienced staff with great product knowledge and a proven sales record. I dont get offered the educational trips that I think I need much anymore, but again this is because tour ops arent offering them to independant agencies so they can keep their costs down.

I'm very sad to see good old Kosmar go. They always provided a great service and were one of the very few operators that didnt promise bells and whistles and then land themselves in trouble with unkept promises. They also paid a good rate of commission to agents, so it was rewarding to sell them.

I worked a 12 hour shift on Friday when all this kicked off, amending holidays and sorting out flights. Many of the people I booked werent originally our customers. They had booked with online operators who dynamically packaged holidays as a first resort and not as a last as my office does. Their customers came to us as they could not handle the amount of callers and in the case of one company were even hanging up on their worried customers. I watched as Monarch's prices increased by 100, 200 and then up to £500 per person more than they were that morning. I had a long "debate" with a man that I needed £254 from to rebook his flights because he still is labouring under the misapprehension he could get a refund in a few weeks from us or his credit card company and get a cheaper flight from somewhere else. He didnt understand that we all use the same airlines and tour ops in a lot of cases and we all have to work with the same pricing. I dont like having to bully people but in that case I had to and I'm glad I did. By 6pm that evening the same flight would have cost him £800 more.

My advice to anyone is, do your homework, go to a good INDEPENDENT travel agent and give them the chance to get your booking. If they come close, snap their hand off, because if push comes to shove like it did this week, instead of having to spend hours sorting it out yourself you will have the luxury of an office full of people who will do the work for you, to the best of their ability.

budgetflyer

TRAVELMAN
You completely miss the point of moneysavingexpert.com
Its not a means for you to make a living
Its to help people cut the cost of living.

If you help people freely and ungrudgingly the rule of KARMA says you will get at least double back- maybe not directly in pounds and pence but in some way or another.
So you rubbing your hands with glee at others misfortune, because they didnt overspend 100quid or so for the same deal with a TA like yourself really helps no one, least YOUR REPUTATION.

Your main problem always was, you expected EVERY enquiry from MSE ers to end in a booking.Any successful salesman will tell you, its a numbers game.
The more you help folk and give quotes for, the more business you would have got.
Instead you spat the dummy out, disappeared only returning to stick the boot in to those unfortunate to suffer from this airline collapse.

With this economic climate, your hands are likely to get sore clapping btw as more airlines, tour Ops and TAs go bust.
Lets hope your company isnt one of them:rolleyes: