Direct Debit Guarantee

Twister84

YoungNick wrote: »

You are mistaken, like all too many bank staff. The direct debit guarantee, which all banks are required to give their customers, requires the bank to refund a disputed direct debit immediately, which means same day. If the bank doesn't do this, the customer has an open and shut complaint, which if necessary the Ombudsman will uphold.

I am not mistaken and I am fully aware of what the guarantee is.

Any kinds of refunds go in overnight - I'm sure customers are aware of that.

You cannot be expected to get a refund there and then and also have the direct debit recalled, because that'll mean you get credited twice.

stclair

All DD reversals are done over night within the RBS group anyway.

If it was policy to refund the DD to the customer immediate then every bank would have been wrapped on the
knuckles years ago for not adhering if it was such a big issue. Maybe a big consumer campaign could be started.

System

Twister84 wrote: »

Any kinds of refunds go in overnight - I'm sure customers are aware of that.
You cannot be expected to get a refund there and then and also have the direct debit recalled, because that'll mean you get credited twice.

You are mistaken. A well-run financial institution, such as Nationwide, can and did credit me in real time, while I waited at the counter, in accordance with the direct debit guarantee, when a numpty at the then Abbey had mistakenly set up a direct debit from my account and taken somebody else's mortgage payment from my account.
The transactions between banks, under the (now automated) indemnity system, to recover the funds from the originator, are completely separate, and do not involve the wronged customer, who of course does not expect to be credited twice.
http://www.albany.co.uk/knowledge-centre/direct-debit-indemnity-claim-automation/
The conversation should go:
Customer: BT has mistakenly taken a direct debit of £53.27 from my account.
Bank person: Sorry to hear that. Click click. There, the money is back in your account. We'll now be recovering it from BT's bank. Would you mind telling me what was basically wrong? Was the amount wrong, or didn't they give you proper notice, or don't you use BT at all?

From the banks' point of view, there is a flaw in the interbank indemnity system, because the customer does not have to answer this last question. The issue is a private matter between him and BT. However, in practice, most customers will no doubt be happy to oblige.

Twister84

YoungNick wrote: »

You are mistaken. A well-run financial institution, such as Nationwide, can and did credit me in real time, while I waited at the counter, in accordance with the direct debit guarantee, when a numpty at the then Abbey had mistakenly set up a direct debit from my account and taken somebody else's mortgage payment from my account.
The transactions between banks, under the (now automated) indemnity system, to recover the funds from the originator, are completely separate, and do not involve the wronged customer, who of course does not expect to be credited twice.
http://www.albany.co.uk/knowledge-centre/direct-debit-indemnity-claim-automation/

You are mistaken as you are assuming that I do not know about the direct debit guarantee, and that I do not know about procedures with Natwest & RBS. I am not talking about Nationwide's systems, and to be honest I couldn't care less about how they work. I also know what indemnities are as I have done reclaiming for customers.

Whilst I do agree that it is not immediate, this is the way the RBS Group systems works. As I mentioned if you got an immediate refund, and had the payment recalled on the RBS Group systems you would get credited twice. I am not talking about Nationwide's methods.

YoungNick wrote: »

The conversation should go:
Customer: BT has mistakenly taken a direct debit of £53.27 from my account.
Bank person: Sorry to hear that. Click click. There, the money is back in your account. We'll now be recovering it from BT's bank.

As mentioned earlier, it's not as straightforward as this on the RBS Group systems.

System

Twister84 wrote: »

I also know what indemnities are as I have done reclaiming for customers.

You are mistaken. Like all too many bank staff, you appear not to understand that the direct debit guarantee which NatWest/RBS has to give its customers is completely separate from the indemnity which originators have to give their bank. The indemnity does not enable you to reclaim for customers; it enables you to reclaim for NatWest, after you have refunded the customer. I suggest that you read Albany's explanation at the link I posted before:
http://www.albany.co.uk/knowledge-centre/direct-debit-indemnity-claim-automation/
You could also look at the Ombudsman's interesting case studies on bank staff's errors at
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/27/27-directdebit-guarantee.htm
Since RBSGroup accounts accept Faster Payments (and, I imagine, cash paid over the counter) in real time, they must be able to accept refunds of a disputed direct debit in real time also. I believe you that you do not know how to do it. Does NatWest offer staff any training in customers' rights under the direct debit guarantee?

stclair

I think if you have any issues with the RBS Group processes you should contact the banks head office direct.

RBS HEAD OFFICE 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh, EH2 2YB

The RBS group policy is the refunds will take place over night NOT immediate.

I have worked for the RBS group for 8 years in different areas of retail banking and this has always been the case.

System

stclair wrote: »

The RBS group policy is the refunds will take place over night NOT immediate.

The direct debit guarantee says immediate. Every RBS customer who does not get an immediate refund should complain formally to RBS in accordance with RBS's complaints procedure, and then, when RBS prevaricates and waffles, to the Ombudsman.

stclair

YoungNick wrote: »

The direct debit guarantee says immediate. Every RBS customer who does not get an immediate refund should complain formally to RBS in accordance with RBS's complaints procedure, and then, when RBS prevaricates and waffles, to the Ombudsman.

Maybe you should start an online campaign then RBS may look at other ways to ensure the customer gets an immediate refund. Its always been the case so im surprise RBS have not been reprimanded by the FSA already if it was such a big issue. I know Barclays will give immediate refunds. I just think its all down to system restraints to be honest RBS still uses AS400 lol

System

stclair wrote: »

I'm surprised RBS have not been reprimanded by the FSA already if it was such a big issue.

Doubt if the FSA would care, and individual customers can't complain to the FSA. They could however complain to BACS that RBS doesn't apply the direct debit guarantee properly.
http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/DirectDebitHelpCentre/Pages/IncorrectPayments.aspx
I agree it's weird that RBS/NatWest have got away with it so long. It's sad that customers believe the rubbish that bank staff tell them, especially completely irrelevant stuff about the bank's own indemnity claim.

stclair

YoungNick wrote: »

Doubt if the FSA would care, and individual customers can't complain to the FSA. They could however complain to BACS that RBS doesn't apply the direct debit guarantee properly.
http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/DirectDebitHelpCentre/Pages/IncorrectPayments.aspx
I agree it's weird that RBS/NatWest have got away with it so long. It's sad that customers believe the rubbish that bank staff tell them, especially completely irrelevant stuff about the bank's own indemnity claim.

May you should start the ball rolling and contact BACS about it

http://www.thesmartwaytopay.co.uk/Resources/Pages/ContactUs.aspx