Whats Wrong With Gas Fitters??

andyhop

Canucklehead wrote: »

Good afternoon: Here we go again:wall: CORGI does not make the gas safety regs...CORGI administers a register of gas installers and a Building compliance notification scheme under the auspices of the HSE: in fact CORGI's remit ends in April 2009 when Capita takes over.
Sparky...if your Mom's only quote fits a boiler in one day then the 'gas fitter' is a bodger: see one of my many posts on this subject. I can't speak for the CORGIs in her neck of the woods: my OH's work practices informs my knowledge...he returns people's calls and sends detailed quotes, usually via email....the problem is some potential clients either don't acknowledge receipt/don't get back to him after they 'had a think' etc...very frustrating as these 'tire kickers' drive up the costs for other clients in the end as the cost of free quotes has to be absorbed somewhere(perhaps this is not your experience as a self employed electrician?) Some CORGIs are now charging for quotations and deducting the cost if the 'client' proceeds with the quote.
Have you tried posting on DIYnot? Several CORGIs post on the Plumbing & Heating forum and might be able to recommend someone

Here's hoping your Mom finds one of the good guys and gets a quality boiler installed according to 'Best Practice' at a reasonable price.

HTH

Canucklehead (sitting in the conservatory with the OH reading the Saturday papers after being out early this a.m. sorting out a lash-up with a customer's Bathstore order :mad: before a possible barrage of abuse/misinformation from the usual suspects:D )

so anyone that fits a boiler in 4 hrs then takes 4-5hrs to power flush is a bodger?

some off us prefer to crack on with the job rather than drinking tea all day long

all pipework is securely fixed and level and the house is left in the same conditon as when we arrived

Peartree

Pssst wrote: »

I agree Sparky,,,some people think that tradesmen offer free consulatations and advice. They also think its ok to expect to pay a tradesman peanuts but they'd never think of offering the same peanuts to so called professionals such a solicitors,estate agents,dentists etc

I understand a lot of what you are saying. However, I'm in the middle of trying to get several jobs done in my home - all pretty straightforward,
although some of them relatively small. I expect to pay a fair price for a fair job. However, I have rarely got that far.

I have yet to find another 'professional' as you describe them who thinks it is OK to make appointments and then turn up when they feel like it, if at all (without telephoning). Bewilderingly, many tradesman (and let's face it they are mostly men) seem to think that everyone else is sitting at home laying on a chaise longue waiting for them to arrive rather than out earning the money needed to pay them.

Last week I reorganised my working week, inconveniencing a number of colleagues, and having to play 'catch up' myself on some really important deadlines, to be at home so that various tradesmen could come and give me the 'free quotes' they indicated they were offering. Only one out of a dozen or so actually turned up at the time they arranged with me. Half did not turn up at all. One turned up six hours late and seemed surprised that I wasn't very pleased about it. Of the ones that turned up, only a couple have bothered to quote so far. I appreciate they may not have been interested in the jobs but they could have done me the courtesy of letting me know as a I did the courtesy of giving them the opportunity (the details of the job being clearly outlined in the initial call before they decided they wanted to come along and give a quote).

These were all, according to my research, reputable tradesmen but this is not a unique experience, it is the norm amongst everyone else I know. Actually, the baseline for a tradesman for us is that they actually turn up when they say they will. If you ask for personal recommendations, the usual line is 'he's great, he turns up when he says he will'. If that is the baseline on recommendations you have to admit it is a pretty poor show, isn't it. The baseline for comparison is so low that merely pitching up on time makes you stand out, never mind the quality of your work!

I know that there are some fantastic, reliable people out there - but for those of us looking for them they are few and far between - and deservedly very busy.

When tradesmen stop saying 'I can come at 3 pm tomorrow' assuming I'll be in because I've got nothing better to do (WHY - if I don't have job how could I pay them!). When they turn up within 5 minutes of the time arranged (or telephone if they are unavoidably delayed). When they talk to you with respect and clearly explain the issues (even if you don't have a Y chromosone). When they give you a clearly understandable quote, etc, etc, etc, that's when they start getting treated like professionals, ie, when they start acting like them. When did you last pitch up for your appointment at the dentist to find the surgery shut because the dentist had changed their mind about doing your filling because a more interesting root canal had come along in the meantime?

I appreciate I'm tarring a lot of people with the same brush but it is on the basis of bitter experience (and a huge amount of wasted time) amongst, not just me, but a lot of others.

And whilst I'm complaining, here's an example of the opposite. I have just had some windows replaced by a small local company. The salesman and surveyor arranged appointments at my convenience and turned up bang on time. I got a detailed written quotation, an explanation of guarantees, cooling off periods, etc. I was asked what time I left for work and the arrival time of the fitters was arranged to fit in with that (hurrah, they didn't assume that because I'm a girlie I don't have a responsible job, result!). The fitters rang me to let me know they were running ten minutes late because of a bit of a traffic snarl up. They had dustsheets in their hands as they knocked on the door because they didn't want to mess up my carpet as they came in the door. They rang me during the day to check I was happy with a couple of minor details. They did the job in exactly the time they said they would to a very high quality, cleaned up to the extend I would expect (I don't expect to pay for a few hours vacuuming and dusting) and phoned me the next day to see if everything was OK. I've told all my friends and work colleagues how great they have been and have given their number to five of them.

So, you chucked the term 'professional' into the mix. Above is what I would expect from a 'professional' as a minimum standard. When you fulfil that and treat your customers (both genders) as the fellow 'professionals' that they all are, you get to be considered a 'professional' too. Recognise that having chosen your trade, dealing effectively with the customer is just as important as the technical aspects of the job.

Canucklehead

andyhop wrote: »

so anyone that fits a boiler in 4 hrs then takes 4-5hrs to power flush is a bodger?

Good evening: Yes... 1 installer + 1 day = 1 bodge. Read the manufacturer's installation specs eg. Vaillant page 15. or BS 7563:2006 'Code of Practice for the Treatment of water in domestic hot water heating systems'. It appears there is 'Best Practice' then your 'practice'. The OH prefers not to void a customer's warranty or shorten the boiler's lifespan through faulty installation...he's funny that way.;)

HTH

Canucklehead

andyhop

Canucklehead wrote: »

Good evening: Yes... 1 installer + 1 day = 1 bodge. Read the manufacturer's installation specs eg. Vaillant page 15. or BS 7563:2006 'Code of Practice for the Treatment of water in domestic hot water heating systems'. It appears there is 'Best Practice' then your 'practice'. The OH prefers not to void a customer's warranty or shorten the boiler's lifespan through faulty installation...he's funny that way.;)

HTH

Canucklehead

what type of powerflushing machine do you use?or do you just dose it and empty it the following day.....thats a bodge

something like a x800 cleanser or a eqiv with a kamco cf30 will do the job within 4 hours- now thats not a bodge

i prefer to get the job done within 8-10hours, this means less disruption to the customer

Canucklehead

Peartree wrote: »

I understand a lot of what you are saying. However, I'm in the middle of trying to get several jobs done in my home - all pretty straightforward,
although some of them relatively small. I expect to pay a fair price for a fair job. However, I have rarely got that far.

I have yet to find another 'professional' as you describe them who thinks it is OK to make appointments and then turn up when they feel like it, if at all (without telephoning). Bewilderingly, many tradesman (and let's face it they are mostly men) seem to think that everyone else is sitting at home laying on a chaise longue waiting for them to arrive rather than out earning the money needed to pay them.

Last week I reorganised my working week, inconveniencing a number of colleagues, and having to play 'catch up' myself on some really important deadlines, to be at home so that various tradesmen could come and give me the 'free quotes' they indicated they were offering. Only one out of a dozen or so actually turned up at the time they arranged with me. Half did not turn up at all. One turned up six hours late and seemed surprised that I wasn't very pleased about it. Of the ones that turned up, only a couple have bothered to quote so far. I appreciate they may not have been interested in the jobs but they could have done me the courtesy of letting me know as a I did the courtesy of giving them the opportunity (the details of the job being clearly outlined in the initial call before they decided they wanted to come along and give a quote).

These were all, according to my research, reputable tradesmen but this is not a unique experience, it is the norm amongst everyone else I know. Actually, the baseline for a tradesman for us is that they actually turn up when they say they will. If you ask for personal recommendations, the usual line is 'he's great, he turns up when he says he will'. If that is the baseline on recommendations you have to admit it is a pretty poor show, isn't it. The baseline for comparison is so low that merely pitching up on time makes you stand out, never mind the quality of your work!

I know that there are some fantastic, reliable people out there - but for those of us looking for them they are few and far between - and deservedly very busy.

When tradesmen stop saying 'I can come at 3 pm tomorrow' assuming I'll be in because I've got nothing better to do (WHY - if I don't have job how could I pay them!). When they turn up within 5 minutes of the time arranged (or telephone if they are unavoidably delayed). When they talk to you with respect and clearly explain the issues (even if you don't have a Y chromosone). When they give you a clearly understandable quote, etc, etc, etc, that's when they start getting treated like professionals, ie, when they start acting like them. When did you last pitch up for your appointment at the dentist to find the surgery shut because the dentist had changed their mind about doing your filling because a more interesting root canal had come along in the meantime?

I appreciate I'm tarring a lot of people with the same brush but it is on the basis of bitter experience (and a huge amount of wasted time) amongst, not just me, but a lot of others.

And whilst I'm complaining, here's an example of the opposite. I have just had some windows replaced by a small local company. The salesman and surveyor arranged appointments at my convenience and turned up bang on time. I got a detailed written quotation, an explanation of guarantees, cooling off periods, etc. I was asked what time I left for work and the arrival time of the fitters was arranged to fit in with that (hurrah, they didn't assume that because I'm a girlie I don't have a responsible job, result!). The fitters rang me to let me know they were running ten minutes late because of a bit of a traffic snarl up. They had dustsheets in their hands as they knocked on the door because they didn't want to mess up my carpet as they came in the door. They rang me during the day to check I was happy with a couple of minor details. They did the job in exactly the time they said they would to a very high quality, cleaned up to the extend I would expect (I don't expect to pay for a few hours vacuuming and dusting) and phoned me the next day to see if everything was OK. I've told all my friends and work colleagues how great they have been and have given their number to five of them.

So, you chucked the term 'professional' into the mix. Above is what I would expect from a 'professional' as a minimum standard. When you fulfil that and treat your customers (both genders) as the fellow 'professionals' that they all are, you get to be considered a 'professional' too. Recognise that having chosen your trade, dealing effectively with the customer is just as important as the technical aspects of the job.

Peartree: I've experienced the condescension as well eg.' how could a woman possibly know anything about plumbing and heating?' I expect most MSErs who have sent me PMs requesting quotes, advice etc. have assumed that I am guy...gender stereotyping at it's finest;)

As you said there are 'professionals' out there (I'm married to one) but sometimes it is like finding a needle in a haystack.

HTH

Canucklehead

Peartree

Dear Canucklehead

Have read a number of your posts, and known you were female, and, believe me, if I was in the south east, I would have already been in touch via PM for Mr Canucklehead's details! If you have any professional (not in inverted commas this time!) chums in the north west...

Peartree

Canucklehead

andyhop wrote: »

what type of powerflushing machine do you use?or do you just dose it and empty it the following day.....thats a bodge

something like a x800 cleanser or a eqiv with a kamco cf30 will do the job within 4 hours- now thats not a bodge

i prefer to get the job done within 8-10hours, this means less disruption to the customer

Good evening: Nostrom for powerflushing (OH has had a powerflush machine since they first became available to installers circa 2000), Sentinel products (cleanser and inhibitor), 'Boiler Buddy', scale inhibitor on combis (hard water down here and Vaillant recommends one) and that's two flushes in total including one before you fit the new appliance if you follow manufacturer's specs. Btw, that 'day' of yours is getting longer: it is lovely to see your concern for the client (nothing to do with your profit margin then?)

HTH

Canucklehead

Canucklehead

Peartree wrote: »

Dear Canucklehead

Have read a number of your posts, and known you were female, and, believe me, if I was in the south east, I would have already been in touch via PM for Mr Canucklehead's details! If you have any professional (not in inverted commas this time!) chums in the north west...

Peartree

Good evening: Thank you.:o Sorry, don't know anyone I could recommend in your neck of the woods.

Good luck with your project and your quest for those elusive professionals.;)

HTH

Canucklehead

andyhop

Canucklehead wrote: »

Good evening: Nostrom for powerflushing (OH has had a powerflush machine since they first became available to installers circa 2000), Sentinel products (cleanser and inhibitor), 'Boiler Buddy', scale inhibitor on combis (hard water down here and Vaillant recommends one) and that's two flushes in total including one before you fit the new appliance if you follow manufacturer's specs. Btw, that 'day' of yours is getting longer: it is lovely to see your concern for the client (nothing to do with your profit margin then?)

HTH

Canucklehead

id tell your OH to invest in a better machine then,either that or pull his finger out:rotfl: :rotfl:

each to there own we all have our ways of doing jobs thats within regulations and best practices:beer:

Butterfliesarepretty

I have just had a re-wire which cost me £2800 from a friend, he is coming back this week to retouch the sockets and switches and light fittings as my plastering is now complete. My plasterer charged me £2750 for 'one bedroom fully plastered with new boarded ceiling, one 11ft high stairs and ceiling, one kitchen three walls plastered and boarded under stairs with plaster, one lounge, removed corner boxes, plus new boarded ceiling and he removed my heavily stoned fireplace and replastered and filled in the fireplace area on the floor. He also pinned my bricks together where a crack had appeared in the bedroom and replastered over. Despite a water sodden phone landline which was broken and one of my sofas had a missing foot so now it wobbles and I can't find it, I think the cost was ok. He spent 2 and half weeks doing it and now I am cleaning up. Since then I have had a joiner round, (awaiting quote for skirting round the house and an electric box), a plumber who works part time has put two radiators on for me and only charged me £60 for labour and the radiators from b and q were £160 for one double and one single. I have spent £110 on a skip, £40 for light waste removal, ordered a new bed, still got to get my ikea sink unit and put it together myself and fit sink pipe and taps myself which will be £300. Fire is coming monday and my dad's mate fitting it tuesday who is not corgi reg but is an experienced gas plumber. Next will be carpet in lounge stairs and bedroom, then lino in the kitchen and then painting the walls.

I am knackered but I want to get it all done by end of last weekin Sept and sometimes you just have to pay out to get it finished.