Full and final settlement help thread

DrWatson1

I'm just preempting the response of my creditors and considering what my next step will be.

Looking at the information on the national debtline:

"You should be sent a ‘true copy’ of your agreement that is easy to read and a statement of your account signed by your creditor. The ‘true copy’ must contain all the terms and conditions from your original agreement, information about any changes made to the agreement and your name and address at the time that you took out the agreement. It does not have to include a signature box, signature or the date of signature from your original agreement."

So am I right in saying they don't actually have to send you the original signed document, just a copy of the standard T&C's when you took the loan out? This feels much easier to do than if they had to locate the signed document - Or do they in practice have to find the original signed document??

fatbelly

DrWatson1 wrote: »

I'm just preempting the response of my creditors and considering what my next step will be.

Looking at the information on the national debtline:

"You should be sent a ‘true copy’ of your agreement that is easy to read and a statement of your account signed by your creditor. The ‘true copy’ must contain all the terms and conditions from your original agreement, information about any changes made to the agreement and your name and address at the time that you took out the agreement. It does not have to include a signature box, signature or the date of signature from your original agreement."

So am I right in saying they don't actually have to send you the original signed document, just a copy of the standard T&C's when you took the loan out? This feels much easier to do than if they had to locate the signed document - Or do they in practice have to find the original signed document??

They can send a reconstruction of the consumer credit agreement that you would have signed. It does not have to show your signature but must contain all the prescribed terms that would have been required at that time.

That would comply with s77-9

If the agreement pre-dates april 2007 then you may have additional rights under s127(3). Can explain later or you can probably research...

DrWatson1

Okay thanks all of my agreements predate 2007 (I checked, the earliest is 1991...)

127(3):

The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

So they can't get a court order unless they provide a signed agreement?

weimimamma

Hi guys.

My husband has around £70k worth of debt as interim charging orders on our property back to 2008 and a couple in 2011. We are going to sell our house with a view to paying off our debts and wonder if we contact them to request F & F settlement what is the best way to do this obviously we won't have funds until the property is sold.

Is there any time limit on debts as we have had no contact and made no payments on the interim charging orders since they were put on our property, Just don't want t stir up a hornets nest and have them all on our case.

Debts are all credit cards and most seem to have been sold on to likes of Shoesmiths and Cabot

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

fatbelly

DrWatson1 wrote: »

Okay thanks all of my agreements predate 2007 (I checked, the earliest is 1991...)

127(3):



So they can't get a court order unless they provide a signed agreement?

Sort of...

They would have to persuade a judge that there 'was' one. Easiest way is to produce a copy of the actual signed original. Without one, it's possible that a judge could still be persuaded that it was always their policy to have a signed compliant agreement but they've just lost it. The OFT used to say

the section requires that a document containing the prescribed terms 'was' signed by the debtor or hirer. The creditor or owner may be able to provide evidence that its practice was always to require a signature to its agreements and that its agreements always complied with section 61(1)(a) of the Act and the debtor or hirer may be unable to satisfy the court that he or she did not sign an agreement.

I think that's a little negative because cases have gone both ways. But for your purposes it's another argument that they couldn't enforce it, and some creditors will admit defeat at that point.

fatbelly

weimimamma wrote: »

Hi guys.

My husband has around £70k worth of debt as interim charging orders on our property back to 2008 and a couple in 2011. We are going to sell our house with a view to paying off our debts and wonder if we contact them to request F & F settlement what is the best way to do this obviously we won't have funds until the property is sold.

Is there any time limit on debts as we have had no contact and made no payments on the interim charging orders since they were put on our property, Just don't want t stir up a hornets nest and have them all on our case.

Debts are all credit cards and most seem to have been sold on to likes of Shoesmiths and Cabot

Thanks in advance for any help/advice

I see you're getting good advice on Charging Orders? The Myth

If these COs have been recorded as restrictions (as it seems they have) then your task is to get the house sold without paying them off. At that point they become unsecured debts and you can offer to settle at a discount. At present the creditors will believe they would get the full amount from a house sale and are unlikely to settle at a discount.

There are time limits for taking court action and for enforcing a court judgement. But both events have already happened in this case.

sourcrates

fatbelly wrote: »

They can send a reconstruction of the consumer credit agreement that you would have signed. It does not have to show your signature but must contain all the prescribed terms that would have been required at that time.

That would comply with s77-9

If the agreement pre-dates april 2007 then you may have additional rights under s127(3). Can explain later or you can probably research...

And it's usually the "prescribed terms" or lack of them, where these companies fall down, over time, terms and conditions change, and for some inexplicable reason, they seldom keep copies of the old terms.

So if they can't supply copies of the terms and conditions in force when the agreement was signed, then that is non compliance, and with a good solicitor, makes a good argument for unenforcability.

marzom

When making a full and final settlement, is there a danger that the creditor might not only reject the offer but demand all of the monies owed back and stop accepting the DMP?

Baggiestan

Baggiestan wrote: »

Hi
Just looking for a bit of advice from someone who understands the process better than me.
We are currently on a DMP with SC and have been for approx 5 years with no issues,never missed a payment and have been able to increase payments slightly each year.
In the next couple of months i will have the opportunity to take a lump some out of my pension which i am looking at to offer a F&F to my creditors,should i go through SC or contact the creditors directly and would this cause any issues as the creditors would then know i have got some extra money.

Cap 1 - £4000
Experto Credite - £3500 (originally Post office then sold to BCW then Experto Credite)
Moorgate - £3500 (originally Virgin then Moorgate)
Moorcroft - £3200 (originally Halifax)
Santander - £750

Total - £14950
The money from Pension would be approx 50-60% of debt.is it worth trying this route and does anyone have experience of dealing with any of above companies.
Hope this makes sense.
Thank you.

So far gone f&f route with stepchange who have been very helpful,
Experto Credite have agreed at appox 47%
Moorcroft at around 67%
Still waiting for Santander and Capital One.
Moorgate refused and insist on 100%

Any advice regards Moorgate greatly appreciated

massivedebts

Hi
Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread.
We are on a DMP with SC and have been since Apr 2009. My mum and dad have offered us a sum of money to negotiate full and finals with our 9 creditors to try and clear the debts. I have found the letter template from national debt line and I have also read that the payment to ether creditor will be better being made from a third party (Ie mum and dad) however my dad reckons that the creditors can still come after us at a later date for any monies that were not paid off - Ie the agreed discount % ... Is that correct?
Many thanks