Yearly Cat Booster Jabs - do you?

moggylover

simontheiceman wrote: »

I did say that I wouldn't post any more but I find myself strangely drawn... I only came in here to look for a bit of help with a quote I had and I ended up in the pet care section. What I found was all the Axe-grinders (myself included).

I am never ashamed of using a bit of a blunt tool to make a point. I couched the language in such a way to imply a threat. Unfortunately I think you will find that I have "got your back up" - good; it forces you to think and that is indeed what you have done - I have succeeded and that is all I actually set out to do. It is rather a shame that more people do not think before they act or "speak".

You make a rather laboured point about "big profits". I find that argument at least as distasteful as you found my threat. When I finally make a big profit I'll be jolly grateful but I am some way off that.

A lot of this type of "vet bashing" is rooted in petty jealousy. You either perceive yourself to have less than vets or you resent paying for their services or possibly both.

Fact is I employ a substantial number of people, which will more than likely be more than a complainant will be doing. Welfare vs money is an weak argument used by those who feel that there is little value in the work that is done. They dont value the work so they see no point. I have little desire to keep such clients and with any luck they go elsewhere (thankfully).

If you feel the vet is a rip off then please go and do the training (and take on the debt of that), set up your own practice (I think you'll find the cost quite a lot), and run it on a day to day basis (I'm sick of signing cheques at the rate I have to). Complainers dont value the work and they are clueless as to the costs of business.

Oh Dios Mio! I failed to spot the "homeopathy" note above on first read! Mmmm lets look at the evidence for that one (I'll tell you now - there is none). So NOW we are looking at the argument between a faith based medicine and rational evidence based medicine. He He I love this sort of stuff. The profit on "homeopathic vaccines" must be colossal (they're only water after all!) but I would guess that you would ignore that as it doesnt fit in your "homeopathic belief system".(see Dawkins et al for further comment)

How can you reconcile the "marketing hype fear con that this country falls for" with homeopathy (treating things with faith)? This does not wash. Rationality has disappeared well out of the window and been replaced with a homespun philosophy of nonsense. The word gullible comes to mind but I can't quite seem to work out why.

Must stop (I'm laughing so much I'm almost wetting myself) and that Ferrari engine is getting a little cool out there in front of my mansion. I'm sure the butler could use a little more work.
(In truth I live in a very average suburban house and drive a 7yo car). As I said earlier - If you are piqued by my comments it is you that has a problem, not me - I cant sort your problems out.

Pwned I think (Headshot).

I think you manage to make a lot of nice excuses for yourself that allow you to believe that you have dedicated yourself to animals! I think you probably believe your own hype! Forgive me for I am not so easily conned!

Being fifty years old means I have watched the difference in Vets and their charges and "life styles" over the years. You will have to forgive me if I have become very saddened and disenchanted over the last few years since the insurance culture arrived and the aim of veterinary "care" moved direction! :rolleyes:

My family have always been animal mad and we have had so many creatures through our doors (birds of prey, a fox, seagulls, a roebuck deer - mostly injured and often not able to return to the wild (although fortunately both the fox and the deer did, athough the fox with some internal metal work which I did not in the least begrudge paying for;) )

I have no jealousy of you: other perhaps than that I would love to be a vet so I could do something very useful with it:D . Probably should have done it when I left school - didn't think I could handle putting animals down tbh - but now know that I could if they were suffering. Certainly had the necessary 'O' levels - although my Chemistry was a real scrape:o - but my 3 'A's were not in the sciences so might have struggled for acceptance. No, I do not begrudge paying for GOOD veterinary advice or skills! .

If you "couched" your words as a threat then it still does not make it acceptable behaviour and it lacks all honesty. Furthermore, if even one person went away from the thread fearing that they could be "prosecuted" for failing to have their animal vaccinated then it was also reprehensibly lacking in any integrity! And PLEASE, until you start vaccinating half the nations cats for free, do not tell me you did it from the goodness of your heart and in the best interests of the animal because it is a necessity to their survival that they have the vaccine:rolleyes:

Suffice it to say that it probably will be very difficult in the first years of setting up your own practice but I know of several very well established ones that offer a VERY nice standard of living for the part-time older partners;) . Just stick with it: I'm sure you will get there!;)

As to the rest of your post! You only show your ignorance! My animals do not have any "faith" in whichever pill I pop down their throat: nor did I until I saw some pretty miraculous results! If I "tell" them that the antibiotic will help and it does not - but "tell" them the homoeopathic one will and it does - then there has to be more involved than "faith" - otherwise the antibiotics would have helped would they not:D .

Furthermore, the VetFFHom qualification is highly regarded (especially within the horse fraternity where homoeopathy is quite widely used) and (bearing in mind that homoeopathy is the chosen preference of our own Queen) there is respect for homoeopathy within those of the human medical profession that have open and enquiring minds. Indeed homoeopathy is recognised by the NHS:D, and most private medical cover as well:D.

ETA: fairly basic but interesting link about homoeopathy

http://www.natural-animal-health.co.uk/Homeopathy.htm

Nomad25

vets are posting on MSE

Good and long may that last. I welcome all inputs from folk in different professions on MSE. I may not agree with them, however, it is very interesting to hear responses from 'on the job' posters. Over the years I've had a few cyber differences with some of the MSE vets, but they have also been very helpful and IMHO honest when asked to explain different veterinary stuff or problems and my understanding has been definitely been enhanced.

simontheiceman is obviously not backwards in coming forward, however he does seem to have received an unfair dose of diatribe and vitriol in recent posts, maybe an easy target for pent-up frustration?

However, I want posters like him to stay around and be on this forum, not be put off by personal attacks, so please knock it off.

Homeopathic stuff - let's not go there on this thread.

simontheiceman

Nomad25 wrote: »

Good and long may that last. I welcome all inputs from folk in different professions on MSE. I may not agree with them, however, it is very interesting to hear responses from 'on the job' posters. Over the years I've had a few cyber differences with some of the MSE vets, but they have also been very helpful and IMHO honest when asked to explain different veterinary stuff or problems and my understanding has been definitely been enhanced.

simontheiceman is obviously not backwards in coming forward, however he does seem to have received an unfair dose of diatribe and vitriol in recent posts, maybe an easy target for pent-up frustration?

However, I want posters like him to stay around and be on this forum, not be put off by personal attacks, so please knock it off.

Homeopathic stuff - let's not go there on this thread.

OK - I'll stop picking on the homeopathists - I think I made my point. Homeopathy puts people in 2 camps and there is NO middle ground. Its too easy to wind up from either side.

Hopefully I can withstand the personal jibes (I get enough of the very same on a daily basis). As I said I only came along here to seek help with a quote (I wont say what) and got drawn to the pet area. What I saw was an opportunity to provide some informed opinion but I must admit that this thread has rather run away with itself.

As I have said previously I am very interested in the psychology of the viewpoints behind the various posts. The more it goes on the more interesting it becomes.

What you might not be surprised by is the existence of forums aimed purely at those working in the profession. These can be even more interesting and show that many of the issues that affect us here in the UK are a worldwide phenomenon.

I was slightly disingenuous earlier when I noted that I drive a 7yo car. This may have implied that I cannot afford one but this is not true. I have no other car (saves a fortune if you only have 1 vehicle). The reason behind this is not because I cannot afford it, but because the Co2 produced in making a new car exceeds the Co2 it will create in its lifespan by some large margin. My car will easily do 250,000 miles and I expect it to do so. Moreover this saves tax by huge amounts. Economic and environmental sense together rarely occur.

Nomad25

As I said I only came along here to seek help with a quote (I wont say what) and got drawn to the pet area.

:T and it would appear you've decided to stay, which is good news and I for one hope at some future point to read some more well informed [can't guarantee well received!] posts from you. :beer:

Notsosharp

simontheiceman is obviously not backwards in coming forward, however he does seem to have received an unfair dose of diatribe and vitriol in recent posts, maybe an easy target for pent-up frustration?

However, I want posters like him to stay around and be on this forum, not be put off by personal attacks, so please knock it off.

If he wants to post then fair enough but I don't think he will get his point across if he insists on insulting people who don't have their animals vaccinated. I seem to recall he called them "morons", if I knew this was what my vet secretly thought of me then I would make pretty damn sure I did not go back to see him.

lowis

gosh, i must be one of the lucky few, my vet is brilliant and really does care for animals and the humans (very important too!) he deals with. and so do his colleagues too.

i recently had a cat with cancer and he handled the ongoing care and treatment over 18 months professionally and compassionately. he discounted his fees (even did quite bit for free too), told me to get the meds off the internet or down the local pharmacy (where possible) and didn't even charge me to come out to my home when we put my cat to sleep...he even cried as he did it. he is quite young and i know that one day he will move on to a bigger practice perhaps, or one out in the country..i dread that day, but until then i really appreciate him.

i think it is only a minority of vets who put profit before care.

1sue23

harryharp wrote: »

The tone of your 'argument' is exactly the same as the 'I've-been-smoking-[or other such unhealthy practice]-all-my-life-and-it-never-did-me-any-harm' brigade. It's the 'I know better' beligerent attitude that is evident all the time in so many people (my MIL for instance- I can just imagine her saying exactly what you have said about her pets, and the tone of voice she would say it in...).

You are relying on luck. Well, as Simon so succinctly put it, 'luck cannot be considered as a rationale for management of healthcare', and I certainly don't feel so confident leaving important things to chance.

No not relying on luck was once a member of the cats protection league and priority was always spaying the cats and treating any injuries any ferrel cats that were caught were spayed and then released back to where they came from did not have the funding to pay for the jabs and no way could we have captured them for their boosters maybe things have now changed but this was back in the 70s early 80s during the recession and the closure of the steel works, people could not afford to pay for jabs but we did give vouchers to people to pay for spaying at times of hardship,as I said most of my cats were rescued and lived long lives 2 were feral and lived in my shed always dry well fed and cared for I for one would rather give the money that I would have paid out for jabs to the cats protection league or other charity to help the more needy animal.

Bengal_owner

following statement has been made from a vet based in the States......
Let me shed a little light on the subject with a little education. I am a veterinarian from the U.S. and have really focused on educating dog owners about the problems with annual vaccination.
First you need to understand how vaccines work. When a vaccine is given to your dog the body acts like it has been infected with the disease of the vaccine and it produces antibodies. It is the antibodies that protect against an actual infection. As long as the antibodies are in the dogs body the dog will be protected. And that is where the research comes in. A duration study is one that tests how long antibodies stay around or last in the body. In the past drug companies were only testing for one year because that was all they were required to test. Why would they test longer they would lose money if the antibodies stay around longer? Well duration studies done independently by veterinarians such as Dr. Ron Schultz of the University of Wisconsin-Madison show that the antibodies for the diseases of Distemper, Parvo and Hepatitis stay in the dogs body between 6 and 9 years. Which means that a dog is protected against those diseases after proper vaccination for that long of a time period. In fact some of the research indicated that a few dogs are actually protected longer than that. The 6 to 9 years is only an average, which means some dogs are protected longer and some dogs less than that as well.
So now comes the problem. You see annual vaccination has side effects. Really bad side effects. In recent studies it has been implicated that annual vaccination causes an overstimulation of the immune system which in turn causes diseases such as allergies, autoimmune diseases (the body attacking itself such as in AutoImmune Hemolytic Anemia), and even cancer. In fact in cats it has been proven that annual vaccination causes a specific type of cancer. Anecdotal evidence by myself and many many other veterinarians is showing that if you have a dog with allergies giving them a vaccination will stimulate an allergic episode and that if you do not vaccinate the dog anymore the allergic episodes reduce in frequency and severity. I personally have had dogs with horrible skin allergies make a complete recovery by changing their diet and no longer giving vaccines.
My vaccination recommendations now - complete series of puppy vaccines then a booster a year later, then titers (a blood test to determine the level of antibodies in the dog) every three years to determine if the dog still has antibodies in their system. If they do then they are protected against the disease and do not require a booster. If the antibody level is low then the dog receives a vaccine of that disease.
It has been difficult to change a procedure that has been pushed hard for so many years, even many veterinarians are fighting the change to the new vaccine protocols, so I can only imagine what it does to owners. The insurance companies will discontinue their requirements of annual vaccinations when it becomes pretty much common knowledge that annual vaccination will cost them more money in the long run by treating for allergies, autoimmune diseases and cancer. They will require puppy vaccines and then boosters every three years. I still do not like that protocol but it is better than annual vaccinations.
they go on to say that annual vacinations in cats is actually bad for cats and can cause more health problems than the actual infection , however you have to get the first 2 jabs done in order for them to be able to produce the antibodys in the first place
what they actually should be doing is every 3 years taking a blood sample to make sure the antibodys are still there
you can actually overdoes on antibodys which makes you very poorly. However kennel cough you must do especially if the dog stays in kennels.