Yearly Cat Booster Jabs - do you?

pault123

Phoebs wrote: »

I'm with you on most of your post simon, but the housebound cats bit jars a bit... yes they are probably less at risk, however, we walk goodness knows what into our homes having been outside, we probably also pet other peoples cats from time to time, and although not all illnesses can be transferred this way, some can.

I'm preaching to the converted with you I know, but just wanted to reiterate that housecats are not exempt from the risk of these nasty illnesses, if they were, why would the GCCF/TICA/FB insist on annual vaccinations for all show cats, 99.9% of whom are housecats

for showcats would that be to attend shows and be around other cats?

I agree though diseases can be brought into a house by a human

1sue23

I have been keeping cats for 30 plus years now and non of them have ever had a jab all have lived long and happy lives bar one who was run over the average cat that I have owned has lived until their late teens and 2 into their 20s most have been rescue or feral cats and I could well afford the jabs but choose not too .

harryharp

1sue23 wrote: »

I have been keeping cats for 30 plus years now and non of them have ever had a jab all have lived long and happy lives bar one who was run over the average cat that I have owned has lived until their late teens and 2 into their 20s most have been rescue or feral cats and I could well afford the jabs but choose not too .

The tone of your 'argument' is exactly the same as the 'I've-been-smoking-[or other such unhealthy practice]-all-my-life-and-it-never-did-me-any-harm' brigade. It's the 'I know better' beligerent attitude that is evident all the time in so many people (my MIL for instance- I can just imagine her saying exactly what you have said about her pets, and the tone of voice she would say it in...).

You are relying on luck. Well, as Simon so succinctly put it, 'luck cannot be considered as a rationale for management of healthcare', and I certainly don't feel so confident leaving important things to chance.

moggylover

simontheiceman wrote: »

In terms of duration between vaccinations, you do have a degree of leeway and I would expect most praactices to accept anywhere between 3 and 6 months as this is what the manufacturers are happy to tolerate as reasonable. The reason they do not last longer is due to the interesting science of immunology particularly in respect of different species. Hence you cannot compare human vaccinations and animal vaccinations. If you fail to vaccinate or fail to keep up boosters then you take a risk and if you are lucky then you will have saved a few pounds but (and its a big but) you and only you are responsible for the welfare of your animal and this is now enshrined in law under the Animal welfare act 2006 (with updates in 07 and 08). Technically; if you fail to take care of an animal especially in respect of a preventable disease then you could be held liable.

I see that as a threat type argument, and if you are a vet I think you should be utterly ashamed of yourself for applying it!

It holds no water - and vaccination is not mandatory, nor (IMO as someone who has dealt with not only a very large number of cats of her own - but also someone who has personally rescued many hundreds + a variety of other creatures over her years) of any real use to the animals. The law is meant to deal with people who do not take proper care of an animal or seek veterinary care for a sick or injured animal - not those who do not choose to be further conned by the drug companies and vets who both have a vested interest in flogging the vaccines!

BTW - the WORST case of cat flu I have ever struggled with was in a rescued VACCINATED cat (within the vaccination span) - the animal survived with extensive 24 hour nursing - but was left with a snotty nose for ages (despite many courses of antibiotics which of course made the situation worse as they further suppressed the immune system:rolleyes: ) until I took him to a homoeopathic vet and had the problem sorted!

Up until the introduction of pet insurances, very few people got vaccinations, and vets did not overcharge as dramatically as they do these days :rolleyes: - and I have had several cats who despite no immunisation have lived well over 20 years! I have also had cats born with the FIV virus who have lived only a few short months!

Furthermore, many of my own cats came to me as sick ferral kittens with cat-flu: there would be absolutely no point in vaccinating these against this - as they already carry the fungal virus and will not catch it again - although may show further symptoms if ill in some other way!

The best way to protect ones animal against feline leukemia is to ensure that they are neutered/spayed and kept in at night (when the majority of fighting and biggest risk from traffic occurs) and fed correctly so that their own immune system is left to work for them. If you still have a "fighter" then he/she is best kept in ifyou really want to avoid illnesses - possibly with a run, because the biggest risk illness, and the worst one to experience is FIV - and there is NO immunisation for this, nor any cure/treatment: although many vets will con you into keeping them alive on antibiotics for a few weeks/months when the outcome is a foregone conclusion!

Any cat which is know to carry the FIV or FelV virus should only ever be kept alive if it can be ensured that said cat will not be allowed out! I have a friend who runs a private sanctuary especially for cats of this type - currently about 50 cats who are all carrying one or other virus (some both) and are thus not safe to allow around other healthy cats. Her vet is the homoeopathic one I use - and he states that he would prefer not to vaccinate any cat without first testing for the presence of these two horrible viruses as their immune system is already too far challenged! Some of these cats have survived 10/12 years with the virus as long as well cared for and their immune system challenged as little as possible by other factors!

We cannot totally PREVENT illness in animals, anymore than we can in humans - and the fear and worry to parents and pet owners caused by the vaccination culture (which makes HUGE profits for those involved in production/marketing/administering) is just another one of those marketing hyped fear cons that this country falls for all too easily these days!

I generally read, shake my head, and retreat from threads where vets are posting on MSE - but I found your nasty inferrence very, very cruel and dishonest. No-one is going to be prosecuted for not having their cat vaccinated - and to even hint at it was totally lacking in integrity and decency.

What I miss is the days when animal welfare, and care came first with the veterinary profession, nowadays the majority of practices seem to think money first, animal and owner way down the list.

To everyone else I apologise for the rant - but it needed saying!

moggylover

And let's just get one thing straight here! No way could I afford to vaccinate my entire lot, let alone the others that still come through my hands each year in rescue. Not ONCE has a vet thought it important enough that they offered this, or any other service, free of charge in the interests of the animals;) that cost myself and other friends a lot of money to just rescue, feed, get neutered/spayed/de-fleed/wormed/veterinary treatment that they might need for illnesses they have when they come and finally in homechecking/rehoming!

What should I do then: as I cannot afford to vaccinate - should I just have all of them put to sleep? Would they be better off left as strays on the streets and farms?

The only vet that I have ever known to do something for nothing for animals is the homoeopathic one that several of us now travel a long distance to use: he actually gives his expertise to my friend with the FelV/FiV cats free of charge, never charges for the medication (mostly homoeopathic - but sometimes has had to do ops and so forth with conventional anaesthesia and drugs). He has turned out to me (about 40 miles away) at 2.00a.m. when a sick kitten we had been treating took a turn for the worse and not charged. He charges me for my own cats treatment - not for the rescues, and far less than the local vets charge - but then his car is almost as beaten up and tatty as my own:rolleyes: and he and his wife have an assortment of their own "rescues", mostly dogs!

The only other help I have ever received from a vet in respect to rescue work is that I managed to get a reasonable discount on neutering/speying from one locally - but then I was taking in an average of 200 cats a year (over some 5 years!) for this operation, and it was part funded by the CPL - although the after care/feeding costs, and the transportation costs, and the trapping costs and so forth were covered from my own pocket!

I love animals enough that they have eaten when I have not in the past, my children and I know that for what I spend on our rescued mob each year we could have a damn good holiday :rolleyes: - but a holiday lasts two weeks, our beloved rescues last far longer (usually) and give and receive a huge amount of love during their time with us! Nearly £50K of savings and money realised by selling a share portfolio that was meant to be for my retirement was spent on the 5 years of rescue work before my kids came along - and I still find the dosh to "keep my hand in" and do a little of the work that the big charities fail miserably to do.

That probably does make me an idiot! And I sure as hell will never be rich, nor even as "comfortable" as I was before I moved here and got so heavily involved in rescue in an area which was (and in parts still is) 30 years behind the times with regard to animal welfare, nor will I run an up-to-date car or have all the latest fashions or "things" for my home!

But I turn away nothing that needs me - and the cost is the last of my considerations, either in time or money or, incidentally, pain should I fail to save the animal! Shame that most of the vets that I have experienced do not feel the same about animals;) . That I cannot do the job "perfectly" saddens me: but unless I win a shameless amount on the lottery then I shall just continue to do my utmost best.

Animals should not be a money making venture for breeders, vets, pharmaceutical companies, marketing companies or those that produce over-priced pet supplies for a market which has gone mad in the last 20 years! Man has betrayed so many of these creatures in so many ways. Many vets do as well: I've had several try to tell me they could do this, that or the other for an animal which had no hope of any long term survival or quality of life - and I refuse to return to practices where they are unable/unwilling to gently advise that the kindest, and most humane action would be to euthanase now! Mostly because they do not make as much profit from those words!;)

£25/visit for a consult to either of my local vets - total time usually less than 10 minutes! That makes £150/hour! 80 mile round trip to my homoeopathic vet - charge £12/visit, no matter how many animals, and will spend an hour if that is what it takes! Costs more in diesel to get there than it does for the visit and the medication! No fancy practice - has a converted house and lives above the surgery. Lots of very up to date equipment, and a reputation for being "totally awesome" with difficult horses. No partner, but takes on what he considers "committed" young vets from college. They have to prove that they are more interested in the animals than the money cos he admits he cannot pay as well as other vets, and yet he has had some superbly qualified young people working with him!

A few weeks ago I needed a tooth removed, I am an abject coward about needles, but the cost for me to have the tooth taken out privately under aneasthesia was £350.00! I probably could have raised it - I did not and am now on the waiting list for it to be done at the hospital! The reason I did not: because someone found a very badly injured cat in their garden (cat fight injuries that had turned very septic). He cost me close to £100 in the one evening whilst my local vet and I cut open the large (about 2" diam) abscesses on his front legs and cleaned them out, x-rayed, and anti-biotic injections so that I did not have to pull him about to shove pills down his throat. I spent the next four weeks cleaning those wounds 3X daily with hibiscrub and a syringe until all the dead and foul smelling flesh and puss was gone. He then cost more for the flesh to be stitched together! He is doing well now - and is with a friend of mine who could keep him in a large room with a pen all on his own as he will not tolerate other cats near him.

Money gets spent where truly NECESSARY in this house.

I apologise again - I will go away and kick myself for ranting! And then I will look after my (not always voluntarily collected) menagerie with a clean conscience and a loving and too soft heart.:o

simontheiceman

moggylover wrote: »

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I see that as a threat type argument, and if you are a vet I think you should be utterly ashamed of yourself for applying it!

It holds no water - and vaccination is not mandatory, nor (IMO as someone who has dealt with not only a very large number of cats of her own - but also someone who has personally rescued many hundreds + a variety of other creatures over her years) of any real use to the animals. The law is meant to deal with people who do not take proper care of an animal or seek veterinary care for a sick or injured animal - not those who do not choose to be further conned by the drug companies and vets who both have a vested interest in flogging the vaccines!

BTW - the WORST case of cat flu I have ever struggled with was in a rescued VACCINATED cat (within the vaccination span) - the animal survived with extensive 24 hour nursing - but was left with a snotty nose for ages (despite many courses of antibiotics which of course made the situation worse as they further suppressed the immune system:rolleyes: ) until I took him to a homoeopathic vet and had the problem sorted!

Up until the introduction of pet insurances, very few people got vaccinations, and vets did not overcharge as dramatically as they do these days :rolleyes: - and I have had several cats who despite no immunisation have lived well over 20 years! I have also had cats born with the FIV virus who have lived only a few short months!

Furthermore, many of my own cats came to me as sick ferral kittens with cat-flu: there would be absolutely no point in vaccinating these against this - as they already carry the fungal virus and will not catch it again - although may show further symptoms if ill in some other way!

The best way to protect ones animal against feline leukemia is to ensure that they are neutered/spayed and kept in at night (when the majority of fighting and biggest risk from traffic occurs) and fed correctly so that their own immune system is left to work for them. If you still have a "fighter" then he/she is best kept in ifyou really want to avoid illnesses - possibly with a run, because the biggest risk illness, and the worst one to experience is FIV - and there is NO immunisation for this, nor any cure/treatment: although many vets will con you into keeping them alive on antibiotics for a few weeks/months when the outcome is a foregone conclusion!

Any cat which is know to carry the FIV or FelV virus should only ever be kept alive if it can be ensured that said cat will not be allowed out! I have a friend who runs a private sanctuary especially for cats of this type - currently about 50 cats who are all carrying one or other virus (some both) and are thus not safe to allow around other healthy cats. Her vet is the homoeopathic one I use - and he states that he would prefer not to vaccinate any cat without first testing for the presence of these two horrible viruses as their immune system is already too far challenged! Some of these cats have survived 10/12 years with the virus as long as well cared for and their immune system challenged as little as possible by other factors!

We cannot totally PREVENT illness in animals, anymore than we can in humans - and the fear and worry to parents and pet owners caused by the vaccination culture (which makes HUGE profits for those involved in production/marketing/administering) is just another one of those marketing hyped fear cons that this country falls for all too easily these days!

I generally read, shake my head, and retreat from threads where vets are posting on MSE - but I found your nasty inferrence very, very cruel and dishonest. No-one is going to be prosecuted for not having their cat vaccinated - and to even hint at it was totally lacking in integrity and decency.

What I miss is the days when animal welfare, and care came first with the veterinary profession, nowadays the majority of practices seem to think money first, animal and owner way down the list.

To everyone else I apologise for the rant - but it needed saying!

I did say that I wouldn't post any more but I find myself strangely drawn... I only came in here to look for a bit of help with a quote I had and I ended up in the pet care section. What I found was all the Axe-grinders (myself included).

I am never ashamed of using a bit of a blunt tool to make a point. I couched the language in such a way to imply a threat. Unfortunately I think you will find that I have "got your back up" - good; it forces you to think and that is indeed what you have done - I have succeeded and that is all I actually set out to do. It is rather a shame that more people do not think before they act or "speak".

You make a rather laboured point about "big profits". I find that argument at least as distasteful as you found my threat. When I finally make a big profit I'll be jolly grateful but I am some way off that.

A lot of this type of "vet bashing" is rooted in petty jealousy. You either perceive yourself to have less than vets or you resent paying for their services or possibly both.

Fact is I employ a substantial number of people, which will more than likely be more than a complainant will be doing. Welfare vs money is an weak argument used by those who feel that there is little value in the work that is done. They dont value the work so they see no point. I have little desire to keep such clients and with any luck they go elsewhere (thankfully).

If you feel the vet is a rip off then please go and do the training (and take on the debt of that), set up your own practice (I think you'll find the cost quite a lot), and run it on a day to day basis (I'm sick of signing cheques at the rate I have to). Complainers dont value the work and they are clueless as to the costs of business.

Oh Dios Mio! I failed to spot the "homeopathy" note above on first read! Mmmm lets look at the evidence for that one (I'll tell you now - there is none). So NOW we are looking at the argument between a faith based medicine and rational evidence based medicine. He He I love this sort of stuff. The profit on "homeopathic vaccines" must be colossal (they're only water after all!) but I would guess that you would ignore that as it doesnt fit in your "homeopathic belief system".(see Dawkins et al for further comment)

How can you reconcile the "marketing hype fear con that this country falls for" with homeopathy (treating things with faith)? This does not wash. Rationality has disappeared well out of the window and been replaced with a homespun philosophy of nonsense. The word gullible comes to mind but I can't quite seem to work out why.

Must stop (I'm laughing so much I'm almost wetting myself) and that Ferrari engine is getting a little cool out there in front of my mansion. I'm sure the butler could use a little more work.
(In truth I live in a very average suburban house and drive a 7yo car). As I said earlier - If you are piqued by my comments it is you that has a problem, not me - I cant sort your problems out.

Pwned I think (Headshot).

MrsE_2

moggylover wrote: »

The best way to protect ones animal against feline leukemia is to ensure that they are neutered/spayed and kept in at night (when the majority of fighting and biggest risk from traffic occurs) and fed correctly so that their own immune system is left to work for them. If you still have a "fighter" then he/she is best kept in ifyou really want to avoid illnesses - possibly with a run, because the biggest risk illness, and the worst one to experience is FIV - and there is NO immunisation for this, nor any cure/treatment: although many vets will con you into keeping them alive on antibiotics for a few weeks/months when the outcome is a foregone conclusion!

Mine is a scrapper, is he at risk?

I don't let him out at night, but a couple of times a year he stays out late or slips out on the quite & he has a fight. He probably has one a year (on average) that needs a vet visit. He only has one or two a year anyway.

moggylover

MrsE wrote: »

Mine is a scrapper, is he at risk?

I don't let him out at night, but a couple of times a year he stays out late or slips out on the quite & he has a fight. He probably has one a year (on average) that needs a vet visit. He only has one or two a year anyway.

He is at risk if he comes up against a cat that is FIV positive:o : bites are the most common way for the virus to be transmitted.

It is widespread and many areas are particularly at risk. My local vets has a chart/map on the wall in their surgery which shows the percentage risk from both FelV and FIV (which are related and similar viruses) in different areas but I cannot find it on line. Your own vet may/should know the percentage risk in your area.





http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fiv.html

MrsE_2

moggylover wrote: »

He is at risk if he comes up against a cat that is FIV positive:o : bites are the most common way for the virus to be transmitted.

It is widespread and many areas are particularly at risk. My local vets has a chart/map on the wall in their surgery which shows the percentage risk from both FelV and FIV (which are related and similar viruses) in different areas but I cannot find it on line. Your own vet may/should know the percentage risk in your area.
http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/brochures/fiv.html

Normally its eye scratches.

But last time he had two holes in his cheek from the other cats teeth.

He had to have one side of his face shaved.

Is he also at risk if he bits them?

MrsE_2

Vaccines to help protect against FIV infection are now available. However, not all vaccinated cats will be protected by the vaccine, so preventing exposure will remain important, even for vaccinated pets. In addition, vaccination may have an impact on future FIV test results. It is important that you discuss the advantages and disadvantages of vaccination with your veterinarian to help you decide whether FIV vaccines should be administered to your cat.

Read this on your link, I wonder is this part of the multi vaxs or an extra?
Worth a try.