Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections s77-79)

JohnInDebt

Hello,

I read on here in a previous thread about requesting a copy of a credit agreement from a creditor (sections s77 - 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974) which I have done (and sent a cheque payment of £1).

How long do I have to wait for a copy of it?

I have heard of 12 days and 28 days being mentioned somewhere but wasn't sure if they related to this request.

The reason that I'm requesting it is that the copy that I have wasn't signed by the creditor and I believe that other information was added to the agreement (which is not on my copy).


JohnInDebt

gizmoleeds

The Act itself talks ony about the "prescribed period" - this may be on the agreement itself - have a look on your copy to see if it talks anywhere about a "prescribed period"

file_wizzard

Under the section 78 (1) of the CCA the creditor has 12 Days to respond to a request for information.

The 28 days relates to the period after which a “default” cannot be upheld unless documented.

Remember though, these timeframes are in respect of the obligation to provide information for the debt under the CCA, NOT any data which is held by the Credit reference agency’s which would be governed by the data protection act

file_wizzard

JohnInDebt wrote:

The reason that I'm requesting it is that the copy that I have wasn't signed by the creditor and I believe that other information was added to the agreement (which is not on my copy).
JohnInDebt

there is only ever one agreement per account at any one time, if information has been added with out your counter signature then it is not a legal binding document anyway

$17mma

Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Consumer Credit and Data Protection Act?

gizmoleeds

Consumer credit act:

http://www.john.antell.name/CCA1974.htm

Data Protection Act 1998:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm

Information on the DPA:

http://www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/

JohnInDebt

Thank you for your replies.

The 12 days has come and gone (currently it's at 21 days). Does this do anything in my favour or do I have to wait for the month to pass?

Sorry for sounding a little stupid but the 30 days (or month) and the 12 days are confusing me.

I'm a little uncertain what the 12 days actually means, is this just a rough timescale for them to provide the information?


John

file_wizzard

JohnInDebt wrote:

I'm a little uncertain what the 12 days actually means, is this just a rough timescale for them to provide the information?John

No the 12 days is a legal requirement

If you have not received a response after 28 days then report the offending party to your local trading standards, and the Office of Fair Trading

JohnInDebt

Hi,

Just a quick update.

There was a grey area where it was undecided if the default is after 30 days or 42 days (including the 12 days to provide this information).

I have now waited the 42 days and still haven't heard from them. I will report it to my local trading standards and the Office of Fair Trading.

Does anyone know what the outcome is likely to be? i.e. just a slapped wrist or a fine?


Regards,

JohnInDebt

ali82

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

(c) the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.


(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or
(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(5) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.



78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—


(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.


(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement.


79 Duty to give hirer information

(1) The owner under a regulated consumer hire agreement, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the hirer and payment of a fee of £1 , shall give to the hirer a copy of the executed agreement and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the owner showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the hirer but remains unpaid and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the hirer, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

(3) If the owner under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—


(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(4) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.

PaulS43

ali82 wrote: »

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

(c) the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.


(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or
(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(5) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.



78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—


(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.


(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)(c), he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.


(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period after the end of the period to which the statement relates.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement, and subsections (4) and (5) do not apply to a small agreement.


79 Duty to give hirer information

(1) The owner under a regulated consumer hire agreement, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the hirer and payment of a fee of £1 , shall give to the hirer a copy of the executed agreement and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the owner showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the hirer but remains unpaid and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the hirer, or

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

(3) If the owner under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—


(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.


(4) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.

Can anyone help me with a question I'd like to raise from this post?

I have a "notional" debt which has been transferred (assigned) from Sainsbury's Bank (Halifax / Bank of Scotland) to a "CL Finance". Some 2 years after I fell into dispute with Sainsbury's, at the beginning of August, I got a letter 'out of the blue' from CL Finance demanding £4½ grand by return. The letter informed me the debt had been assigned from Halifax to CL Finance. Not recognising ether the amount, nor the creditor, I wrote by return that day to ask "What's this all about... Can I have copies of all the credit agreements, statements, etc" (I have kept a copy of the letter but without posting the entire letter, my italics are a summary). A few days later, I received a letter on A4 telling me "We're getting copies of the relevant bits for you". Eventlually after around 6 weeks (I have kept the envelope with its franking datestamp) copy statements and a copy of the original credit agreement came through.

Question: Is the debt now un-enforceable through this tardiness on the part of CL Finance??

I will add that I do now recognise the original creditor: In brief, all this came around because I fell on hard times at the end of 2005. I reached agreements directly with all of my creditors (including Sainsbury's) to pay what I could afford - I found all of them before they found me. In May of 2006 the "Head Gasket" went in the car. I had to get it fixed because without it I could not get to work. I wrote to all my creditors and explained. Whilst none of them were happy that I missed May's payment, only one bank decided to clobber me - Sainsbury's. The thing is, before I found out they'd added £75 to the debt and reinstated full interest and other charges, I had actually paid June's installment as agreed the previous Christmas (I was paying them £42 a month). On seeing they'd done this, I wrote to them and told them I was refusing to pay. For a period of around 3 months solid, I was rung incessantly, day after day, after day, after day. Of course, I told them to stop calling me - which they ignored. So I acquired a digital telephone recorder and started recording all of their calls. I told them I was recording their calls too. This went on for months. On one day I got SEVEN phone calls from these people. Although I complained to the police about their behaviour, nothing was done about it and I had to have my number changed to stop them criminally harrassing me. I had stated on the phone over and over again that I would not suffer usery and I had since stated in writing (since September 2006) each time I have had a letter from one debt collector or another stating "We're going to take you to court" the answer "Yes please" but all I've had is breaks then more empty letters!

Of course, if a court - on hearing the many, many recordings of these people being asked not to call me, being told they were committing a criminal offence in hounding me - decides I still owe the money (which I say I don't because of the hassle to which I was put), then I'll pay it. (It's a principle thing on my part)

I will close by saying that I have reduced my other debts by around £5,000 over the last 2 years (which considering my income is about £7,500 a year, part time, is something I am proud of). (some of) these companies think that being in debt gives them the green light to flout the law and I am just sick of this going on and on and on. I don't want to give into a corporate bully or the heirs / assign-successors of this loutish behaviour...

Anyway - does anyone have any views?

Thanks