Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections s77-79)

stapeley

If a court decides a CC Agreement is enforceable , then it is a separate issue that unfair practices have been used against you. The regulatory bodies should investigate any complaints about a company , but will not rule that a debt is not enforceable. Your best route is that if you consider that the copy of a requested CCA is dodgy , write again with the default letter . If you receive a summons you must then defend it, on the grounds of non compliance to your CCA request .

stebiz

PaulS43 wrote: »

Can anyone help me with a question I'd like to raise from this post?

I have a "notional" debt which has been transferred (assigned) from Sainsbury's Bank (Halifax / Bank of Scotland) to a "CL Finance". Some 2 years after I fell into dispute with Sainsbury's, at the beginning of August, I got a letter 'out of the blue' from CL Finance demanding £4½ grand by return. The letter informed me the debt had been assigned from Halifax to CL Finance. Not recognising ether the amount, nor the creditor, I wrote by return that day to ask "What's this all about... Can I have copies of all the credit agreements, statements, etc" (I have kept a copy of the letter but without posting the entire letter, my italics are a summary). A few days later, I received a letter on A4 telling me "We're getting copies of the relevant bits for you". Eventlually after around 6 weeks (I have kept the envelope with its franking datestamp) copy statements and a copy of the original credit agreement came through.

Question: Is the debt now un-enforceable through this tardiness on the part of CL Finance??

I will add that I do now recognise the original creditor: In brief, all this came around because I fell on hard times at the end of 2005. I reached agreements directly with all of my creditors (including Sainsbury's) to pay what I could afford - I found all of them before they found me. In May of 2006 the "Head Gasket" went in the car. I had to get it fixed because without it I could not get to work. I wrote to all my creditors and explained. Whilst none of them were happy that I missed May's payment, only one bank decided to clobber me - Sainsbury's. The thing is, before I found out they'd added £75 to the debt and reinstated full interest and other charges, I had actually paid June's installment as agreed the previous Christmas (I was paying them £42 a month). On seeing they'd done this, I wrote to them and told them I was refusing to pay. For a period of around 3 months solid, I was rung incessantly, day after day, after day, after day. Of course, I told them to stop calling me - which they ignored. So I acquired a digital telephone recorder and started recording all of their calls. I told them I was recording their calls too. This went on for months. On one day I got SEVEN phone calls from these people. Although I complained to the police about their behaviour, nothing was done about it and I had to have my number changed to stop them criminally harrassing me. I had stated on the phone over and over again that I would not suffer usery and I had since stated in writing (since September 2006) each time I have had a letter from one debt collector or another stating "We're going to take you to court" the answer "Yes please" but all I've had is breaks then more empty letters!

Of course, if a court - on hearing the many, many recordings of these people being asked not to call me, being told they were committing a criminal offence in hounding me - decides I still owe the money (which I say I don't because of the hassle to which I was put), then I'll pay it. (It's a principle thing on my part)

I will close by saying that I have reduced my other debts by around £5,000 over the last 2 years (which considering my income is about £7,500 a year, part time, is something I am proud of). (some of) these companies think that being in debt gives them the green light to flout the law and I am just sick of this going on and on and on. I don't want to give into a corporate bully or the heirs / assign-successors of this loutish behaviour...

Anyway - does anyone have any views?

Thanks

I had a similar problem with another DCA. I was harrased like you. The police said the only way that they would get involved is if I got an injunction to stop them - and they broke the injunction.

Sadly you still owe the money - although they have broke the law also. Have you scrutinised the CCA. Perhaps you could take out the private info. and upload it. Most CCA's do not hold up. I wouldn't refer to your conversations on tape. You needed their permission and you needed to inform them first. This would only form part of any criminal investigation and it appears the police do not believe there is a crime to investigate - am I right?

Regards
Stebiz

stapeley

This would be seen as a civil matter and police will not get involved !

PaulS43

I will add that once I bought the telephone recorder, I informed them I was taping their calls. I also wrote and told them that if the calls to my number didn't stop, then by their actions in persisting, they were agreeing to pay me £100 per call to apply also apply retrospectively.... Needless to say the calls continued.

It is a criminal offence to pursue a course of conduct where the person(s) doing so knows or ought to know that his/their conduct is causing harm, distress or anxiety to another. Not only is it a criminal offence, the courts MAY award damages commensurate with both the distress caused AND nature of the behaviour involved.

I have actually asked Sainsbury's and all of their DCA's to take me to court - yet none of them have done so, even though they've told me "You'll be in court next week (or similar)" over the last 2 years on 17 different occasions.

The crazy thing about this one particular debt is that up until they decided to go overboard in a power p155ed frenzy, I had come to an agreement with them voluntarily and indeed did go back to that before I realised what they were doing. I have also maintained all the agreements with all the other creditors.

I have to say (as I put in writing to them some time ago) Sainsbury's managed to turn someone who voluntarily was paying a little but what he could into someone not prepared to pay anything. But they are the only creditor I've not paid and only since they did this to me.

I'm very grateful for the views of others - whether they're right or wrong I have to register my frustration that the law is really a load of b0110cks, where companies like these can do what they want and flaunt whichever parts of it they fancy??? I had phone call after phone call after phone call after phone call. The police weren't interested... And I will only pay if ordered to by a court - on principle!

PaulS43

There is a case on the net too. Have a look at:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6684215.stm

As for the legality of recording phone calls: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm

stapeley

Just read the link . A comment I would make is that the Bank only agreed to a refund of unfair charges , which is common if you are prepared to put up a fight . They did not agree to stop debt collection on her other accounts . 33 letters/calls in three months is nothing compared to some companies . The actions of a collection company is a complete separate issue to the whether a debt is enforceable . For a layman to go to court claiming damages for harassment is a difficult road . You would requier the help and advice of a trained solicitor . Trading standards maybe able help .

PaulS43

stapeley wrote: »

Just read the link . A comment I would make is that the Bank only agreed to a refund of unfair charges , which is common if you are prepared to put up a fight . They did not agree to stop debt collection on her other accounts . 33 letters/calls in three months is nothing compared to some companies . The actions of a collection company is a complete separate issue to the whether a debt is enforceable . For a layman to go to court claiming damages for harassment is a difficult road . You would requier the help and advice of a trained solicitor . Trading standards maybe able help .

I am very grateful for your views - even though they're not the sort I wanted to read.

I can tell you that I am still extremely angry that these people hounded me to the extent I had to get my telephone number changed with comments on tape like "We can call you as often as we like, and there's nothing you can do about it." I have to ask the question then: Why haven't they?

I have not paid them a penny since June 2006. The tranches of calls came in 2 batches. The first lot, I repeatedly told them I would pay but only if they re-instated the agreement AND STOPPED CALLING ME (by putting it in writing), there was a break of 2 weeks, then again a stream of unwanted harassing telephone calls when I told them that "that was their lot" and complained to the Police. I got the number changed after my complaint to the police turned out to be a waste of time.

To be fair, I really am not worried by the thought of going to court. The worst thing which can happen is that a judge will say I owe the money (and couple of hundred quid costs) and have to pay it.... And seeing as I don't have £4½ grand stuffed down the back of the sofa, I reckon it's likely to be a tenner a week??? (I don't have any experience of this but I have read other threads on here for example where these sorts of figures are common). What I am after bringing up for scrutiny is the fact that these sorts of calling practices go on and these people get away with it!!!!

There has to be some other reason why I've not paid these people anything for the last 2 years; yet other creditors to whom I've owed similar or more amounts of money have continued to be paid what I can afford without any form of big stick treatment???

Don't get me wrong, I can understand any creditor being peeved over not getting his money and interest in a timely way commensurate with the agreements originally struck with a debtor: But anyone being in debt - especially where they are victim to unforeseen circumstances AND have done or tried to do the right thing really ought not to be subjected to this form of telephone abuse!!!

If they were to offer me a complete and unreserved written apology (and, considering the nature and frequency of their intrusion, a "discount" against the ledger), I would come back to the table and make an offer to pay and stick to it.

polg79

Hi there,

I wonder if anyone can help? I am trying very hard to remove a default notice on my credit file which is preventing me from getting a mortgage. I do not remember receiveing a default notice so I have written to the bank using Section 78 as a means of them to send me evidence that this notice was ever supplied.

I received a letter back from the bank stating that "Section 78 only applies during the lifetime of the agreement and as the account has been closed there is no longer a regulated agreement between ourselves."

Can anyone advise the next steps as I think this is a clear fob off! Should I use The Freedom of Information Act and request this information again? Or is there another solution?

Help!

Thanks in advance

Pol

Tixy

Might be worth looking at #23 from this post to see if there is anything there you can use - http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=33791363&postcount=2

Also you might get more replies/responses if you start a new thread as this is a very old one.

dandabyron

The provisions of the act say that a creditor commits an offence if he fails to comply after a set period of time.

Hillesden Securities have been writing to me since 2008 saying they're in the process of getting the CCA information from Egg.

Can anyone tell me what my options are now?

Thanks,

Dave