first:utility - new energy company launches

NonGeographicalMan

1carminestocky wrote: »

It smacks of Bill Gates' marketing - release a product full of flaws and get the public to pay for the 'priviledge' of sorting it out.

Unfortunately many companies now behave in a Microsoft type way because it is almost impossible for the customer to obtain any adequate remedy about this behaviour as long as the company always claims the problems are all an unitentional glitch that it is now using its very best endeavours to put right.........

NonGeographicalMan

After checking First Utility's Terms and Conditions it appears that the £100 penalty fee within two years of install for cancelling and transferring to another supplier is potentially not actually payable in the event of your reason being a significant price change by First Utility that is to your disadvantage.

See www.first-utility.com/downloads/Resi_EnergyTermsConditions_0107.pdf

15.11 If the contract for energy services ends prior to the initial contract period (if any) we will charge you an early termination fee of £50 including VAT for each utility. This fee will not apply where the contract is terminated pursuant to clause 15.1(a) or 15.1(b).

15. Ending this contract and suspending the services

15.1You can end the arrangements to have any of the services supplied at your premises (subject to clause 15.11) by giving us notice in writing quoting your contract number (note you must give notice in relation to each individual service that you have requested):

(a) in accordance with our cancellation policy (available on request from customer services) which is in line with the Consumer Protection (Distant Selling) Regulations 2000, as amended;

(b) subject to clause 2.3, within 10 working days of being told of any proposed change to your terms (including price) which is to your significant disadvantage. For electricity & gas this must be followed by notification from the new supplier under the MRA within 15 working days that they will begin to supply the premises within a reasonable period of time:

Although note that clause 2.3 says:-

Where the change of our terms is in order to take account of changes to any of the industry agreements or the licence terms under which we operate or due to any changes in the law,regulations, standards or codes of practice applicable to the services or any order, judgment or direction made by the government or any other competent authority you will not have the right to terminate the contract. Such changes will come into effect as soon as you are notified of them.

So the issue is whether a change in the cost of wholesale gas or electricity prices paid by First Utility does or does not constitute a reason for you to not have the right to cancel before the end of two years penalty free. The question in detail is surely whether First Utility changing prices in response to a major increase or decrease in wholesale prices would still still be covered by Clause 15.1 (b) and its provision that "within 10 working days of being told of any proposed change to your terms (including price) which is to your significant disadvantage." that you can cancel the service without paying any penalty exit charges providing they receive details of the new supplier you are migrating to within 15 days.

Either way I have confirmed with First Utility customer services that if you sell your home or end your tenancy and another customer takes over the supply that First Utility considers this a voluntary break in the contract on your side that triggers the £100 exit penalty, even if the new buyer or new tenant occupying your home continues to take gas or electricity from First Utility without a physical interruption in the supply.

However it does seem that if First Utility change your prices upwards just because they feel like charging you more that you can definitely cancel without penalty and if they change them because they claim wholesale gas and electricity prices have changed but change them to your disadvantage more than the percentage increase in those wholesale prices that you probably also still have legitimate reason to demand to cancel your service with them free of the £100 penalty charge.

Cardew

Mmmmm.

Methinks that your error is to use logic!!

Whilst I agree with you, I will bet you a virtual pint:beer: that their intrepretation is not the same as yours!!

I suspect the term "significant disadvantage" will be the key!

NonGeographicalMan

Cardew wrote: »

I suspect the term "significant disadvantage" will be the key!

I suspect they will back off if they increase prices and any customer then insists on cancelling with them fee free as a result and threatens to take the matter to the County Court if they maliciously persist in pursuing charging these amounts. An interesting strategy would be to pay the charges for cancelling but then issue a small claim against First Utlity in the County Court. I bet they couldn't wait to refund the charges and cover your costs of issuing the county court summons pronto. This is because the whole dispute will only be about £100 and it is not worth them getting tied up in litigation over that.

Also at this stage you will no longer be one of their customers so the amount of weapons they have against you for not paying will be much smaller than when you are one of their customers and do not pay a bill that they consider to be due to them. Also you could pay the exit fee on a credit card or Visa Debit card and then invoke the chargeback process to challenge the legitimacy of the payment taken. Or if paid by Direct Debit recover it as an invalid charge under the terms of the Direct Debit scheme.

Cardew

Nothing I disagree with in your latest post, I am quite sure that you would 'win' as soon as you put up a fight.

However the normal tactic of Utility companies is to pass any disputed bill to a Debt Collection Agency and it turn you get a black mark with a Credit Reference Agency.

'Guilty until proven innocent' is the guiding principle!

NonGeographicalMan

Cardew wrote: »

However the normal tactic of Utility companies is to pass any disputed bill to a Debt Collection Agency and it turn you get a black mark with a Credit Reference Agency.

'Guilty until proven innocent' is the guiding principle!

If you explain to Debt Collection Agency that you have a genuine contractual dispute and are not simply refusing to pay money to First Utility due to poverty or out of bloody mindedness they usually back off and refer the matter back to the company.

It is illegal for them to give you a black mark with a credit reference agency if you can show you did not owe them the money under their terms and conditions.

Also in practice First Utility may well try and get the £100 off you before they let you leave so it will then be for you to dispute it using chargeback procedures etc. That is never going to involve a Debt Collection Agency in the loop.

hippey

Not entirely sure what you mean about cupboards, my meter is outside! However I like the 3 rate tariff as it sits well with my usage profile, so I have made savings so far.

The GMT time issue I have discovered is an error, the meters should keep to GMT and therefore peak rate become 1700-2100, which makes sense from a usage point of view. Again I am in a position where it doesn't matter that much as much of my usage can be in the early hours anyway.

NonGeographicalMan

hippey wrote: »

Not entirely sure what you mean about cupboards, my meter is outside! However I like the 3 rate tariff as it sits well with my usage profile, so I have made savings so far.

I live in a flat and like loads of people living in flats my meters are not inside my flat where I can read them and nor are they in one of those white meter cupboards on an outside wall that modern (built in the last 25 years or so) houses have that you and your meter reader can get to at any time.

My meters are in a locked store room in the basement to which only the freeholder/management company (I am a long leaseholder and not a tenant) have the key. They are very difficult about granting access to read the meters yourself and usually rude to you to try and discourage you from asking again. The costs for relocating these meters in to my flat are outrageous and over £500 per meter (£1,000 in total) so the smart meter with mobile transmission of readings scenario solves the whole problem if it works (might be a signal issue down there but the 02 mobile network shows a weakish 2 bar signal at the door to the store room, although no other network does).

So as someone very irritated at not being able to access my own meters when I want this is the big attraction for me but I also don't want to pay over the odds for my energy to have this privilege. However I work from home so am in between 4pm and 8pm and this means their three rate tariff does not appeal to me but their two rate tarriff looks quite appealing as I do stay up late to 2am many nights and could run a dishwasher or washing machine at that time. I can also see a trick such as putting the fridge/freezer off on a timer at say 9.30pm and then starting it again at 12.30am on the timer as being a further way to shift consumption to the very low night time rate on the two rate tariff.

The GMT time issue I have discovered is an error, the meters should keep to GMT and therefore peak rate become 1700-2100, which makes sense from a usage point of view. Again I am in a position where it doesn't matter that much as much of my usage can be in the early hours anyway.

The idea that the meter stays on GMT all year round I find a con because I live my life according to the actual clock time so by staying on GMT that would mean no night time energy price until 1.30am during BST time. That really is too late to be able to use it except with appliances you can start on a timer and are not so noisy that they will keep your neighbours up. They should adjust to BST in summertime and with the technology they use there is no excuse for not doing so.:mad:

hippey

The GMT issue is a strange one, but at the moment it's really screwed up.

Personally it doesn't affect me as I work some strange shift patterns due to the nature of my work, the wife and kids are at home, but I'm lucky enough to have a very energy efficient home.

FU really do seem a bit hit and miss at the moment, and the T&C's seem to keep changing for new customers. Thier reasoning is the technology is new, but I don't think it really is, we have had half-hour charging for industrial customers for some time, and the US are also on the Smart bandwagon, the smartgrid seems a start. FU need to get a handle on these problems before they just spiral out of control.

J20BABY

Kuztardd wrote: »

I just called them up to get a lot of the answers.


I spoke to a lovely lady called Andrea on 0845 215 5000 who was very helpful.


I am happy with the pricing's and will sign up unless someone shows some negative light on the issue :rolleyes:


Hopefully some answers for us all: (answers are not verbatem, and are paraphrased, and I think that the following was said, but if in doubt, phone them... yadda yadda yadda )

Is there a connection fee?
It used to be £99, but now it is free

Is there an exit/un-installation fee?
If you cancel with in the two year period, it is £50 per utility.
If you cancel after the two year period, there is no fee.

Is there a reduction for Dual Fuel?
Yes, after every 12 full months your account will be credited £26.

If the account is cancelled after two years, will there be any cost to revert the old box to normal useage?
There will be no cost, and the old box will still work.

Can I change my electricity tariff within the two years?
Yes you can change between the single, two and three rate at any time with no problems.

I noticed on Uswitch.com that their prices were cheaper, is this correct?
Yes, there are some ways of getting the deals a little bit cheaper.

What is the process for installation?
There is approximately a 6 week wait.
First the gas man will arrive and do his installation.
On a date after this, the electricity man will do his installation.
Times with these people are bookable to a slot (unspecified) so you wont have to take a whole (or maybe even a half) day off work.
If you utility boxes are outside your home you will may have to be at home to let them in.
Work can be done at the weekend for an extra fee.
You will be charged an abortive fee if they arrive and you are not available to let them in.

How do you find out our meter readings.
A SIM card and application is installed within the utility box, that will text the info every half hour to First:Utility.

How can I be sure you wont hike the prices up with in the two years and become very uncompetitive.
Rates are variable, but being a new company with a new business model, we strive to give our clients the best deals. Not being tied to the major 6 utility companies means we can get better deals and on short notice and give these benefits to our customers.

Not when they came to fit my gas meter today it wasn't, I was told I could request a time slot but it wasn't guaranteed(sp) so I asked for a morning, they called early this morning to confirm the fitter would be here between 8 and 12, he came at 1, not too bad, but if i had had to be back at work in the afternoon, then this would have been a pita, and now i have to wait again for them to get an electric meter fitter to me when they feel ready, I have no idea when that is going to be:rolleyes: