Gold - worth a punt?

samclam

TRUSt_NO_1 wrote: »

I'll bet you that the ETF has not got physical silver to fully back investments.
It is probably being loaned out to short silver,which will suppress the price of silver.

It wouldn't be called 'Physical' Silver if it wasn't backed by bars. They list the amount of bars of metal they own http://www.etfsecurities.com/msl/bar_list.xls. How safe ultimately any investment is is another question. I sold my ETFs for now as the price was plummeting.

What I would like to know is where I can buy Inverse / Short ETFs like code: SSIL ?

Anyone know where to buy Short ETFs in the UK?

jon3001

samclam wrote: »

What I would like to know is where I can buy Inverse / Short ETFs like code: SSIL ?

Anyone know where to buy Short ETFs in the UK?

http://www.etfsecurities.com/csl/short/etfs_silver_sh.asp
Exchange: London Stock Exchange

I expect most major UK brokers could do it. If it's not on their system then ask them to add it.

ianmr65

vigman wrote: »

Chard have enough stock but ridiculous mark-up.

TIA

Vigman

i though the chard mark up for a single kruger was 7%? has that changed...?

vigman

ianmr65 wrote: »

i though the chard mark up for a single kruger was 7%? has that changed...?

Yes, you are right. Their high mark ups are on halves (20%) and tenths (35%).

Vigman

ianmr65

so why would anybody pay more than spot+7% on ebay ... I've looked at completed listing and there are people doing this for 'mint uncirculated' krugers which must be worth erm... approximately zero % more than their gold content...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

amcluesent

At least with Bullion Vault the product stays within accredited vaults so there's no need to re-assay on sale. That would cost with ingots bought over-the-counter.

>Dunno why the spot price hasn't appreciated given the massive demand...<

Massive market manipulation by the Treasury and HMG to disguise the devaluation of their fiat currency.

>whether Bullionvault actually buy the physical gold<

I know a chap who reckons he's got some 5Kg of gold with them...let's hope so.

kennyboy66_2

amcluesent wrote: »

>Dunno why the spot price hasn't appreciated given the massive demand...<

Massive market manipulation by the Treasury and HMG to disguise the devaluation of their fiat currency.

Utterly laughable to think that the Treasury could manipulate the market, unless they were physically selling gold.

Not only does it pay no income you pay someone else to mind it.
Great for speculating I guess, but it really has been the most lousy investment over the last 30 years.

jon3001

kennyboy66 wrote: »

Not only does it pay no income you pay someone else to mind it.

Yawn. Why do people always bring this up against 'store of value' asset classes?

kennyboy66 wrote: »

Great for speculating I guess, but it really has been the most lousy investment over the last 30 years.

30 years ago, in 1978, gold was trading at an inflation-adjusted rate of about $600. Today it trades around $800. Therefore over the past 30 years it met investors' objectives as a store of value.

kennyboy66_2

jon3001 wrote: »

Yawn. Why do people always bring this up against 'store of value' asset classes?

Possibly because when most comparions on investing are done, transaction costs are included if we are being consistent.

Of course with gold its conveniently ignored.

Well done, gold has outperformed keeping pound notes under the mattress.

It hasn't even beaten cash in a bank or building society as a store of value.
Not to mention tax-free savings wrappers that have been available.

itsmickdundee

ianmr65 wrote: »

so why would anybody pay more than spot+7% on ebay ... I've looked at completed listing and there are people doing this for 'mint uncirculated' krugers which must be worth erm... approximately zero % more than their gold content...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jesus christ. Some people really were born to be stupid.

It's a bit like the "pump n dump" bulls**t over the Iraqi Dinar. And yep, that too found it's way onto eBay after the war circa 2004 onwards with outrageous and completely unfounded claims, accompanied by a load of hard-sell spiel that a GCSE student could have knocked up, that its current face value had "plummeted" but when the oil starts flowing, the money will be worth a "fortune".

Sure it will. It's that black and white...

If our economy is going down the duffer, there is very little you can do to protect your money. A better bet would be to own a house, rather than gold. At least a house is a necessity that is almost guaranteed to always be in demand. And you'd need a lot of gold to make four walls and a roof out of it... Plus, historically and logically, the supply and demand of homes is a much more attractive proposition than the supply and demand of gold.

I was considering gold a few weeks back for fear of inflation, but then I started thinking things through logically:

If it gets to the point where money is worthless and gold is one of the few things that still has residual value, do you honestly think this country - or even the world - would be in a state to even begin to make use of it? Riots, soup shops, no businesses, massive unemployment, countries going bust - but gold will be useful will it?

I somehow think not, especially considering how it's value has often plummeted during economic downturns. In which case, it is pointless owning it. If the Western economy fails, what would be more important in day-to-day living? Gold or food? Let's look at the above likely consequences to society should things get to such a stage...

Think about it. All the media is assisting with is another classic pump n dump. As soon as the city boys reach their 1k-an-ounce target, in comes a big selling spree and all those private holders will be looking at losses, which they probably won't recover for decades... Remember gold has only recently rocketed in price. It had been in decline for 30 years, which I think says it all about whether it is a "good" or "bad" investment. The current increase in the value of gold is also why the city traders love private investors - they make them rich over and over again - and even when they fail - the private investor then coughs up his tax money too.

Win, win! All you can do is go the city and play the game if you think it's unfair!...