Solicitor slow over probate

fredsnail

I'll keep my fingers crossed that finally something goes right for you.

RAS

Maggie

This is gob-smacking. Not a lawyer but even I understand Deeds of Variation (DS and I had intended to do one if DM cut DB out of her will).

We had major problems with the solicitors who held mum's will but had not been appointed executors; tried to prevent us contacting ex-partner who was executor and insist we used them to obtain letters of administration.

After three months we decided to call in out own solicitor (who had initially advised that the estate was so simple, we could adminster it ourselves). The solicitors holding the will then claimed that the executor was unfit to renounce his executorship, which proved to be lies.

Fortunately, I had been managing the accounts and could give our solicitor a good estimate of the value of the estate. Despite not having the original will, our solicitor paid the IHT for us within the HRMC timetable, from the bank account she could not yet transfer to their holding account.

It took nearly t10 months to get the original will out of the solicitors holding it and I have every reason to believe that they only released it because they discovered that the IHT was paid and they had no further leverage.

We ended up paying quite considerable legal fees because of their behavoiur but I think the firm holding the will would have charged us a lot more if we had allowed them to do the job.

Once we had the will and the renunciations, it took three months to pay out the bulk of the estate and another three to tie up the loose ends.

sloughflint

Regarding will storage,I posted this on another thread. Click on blue arrow to read quote within post or whole thread.

sloughflint wrote: »

It's a nice thought trixybess.

That's exactly what I thought when I called up to arrange to collect a Will that had been stored for free.When I arrived, a solicitor was buzzed to come and 'chat' to me.Admittedly the chat was more than a five minute chat, because it was to explain that there was a problem with the will.( Why did they look?:rolleyes:)

Whilst I was grateful for the information,I decided to do as much of the work as I could myself before contacting a solicitor of my choice for the necessary bits I could not do to rectify the mess.
So what happened? I eventually received a bill for that little chat.

I'm not saying everyone will behave like this but I was certainly caught unawares despite previous involvement with this 'trusted' profession.

It is possible to have wills stored at the High Court of Justice for a one off fee of £15.
More information here:
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1202.htm

monkey_spank

Well done Maggie for persevering with this. :T

This thread (and others too) sadly go to the show that our legal profession, and in particular the murky area of Wills and probate has a lot to answer for.

The advice bandied about so commonly on this forum of 'go and see a solicitor' is sometimes the worse thing you can do. The sheer torture that S1 has put Maggie through is a classic case of an incompetent then doing everything possible to cover his backside - something solicitors are extremely adept at doing.

I know several people who've been on the receiving end of similar behaviour and I know these so called professionals are still operating and doing very nicely, having wriggled out of their predicament by smoothing things over with 'a full and final settlement' at the end.

I personally think the authorities need to take a stronger line on regulation so that ordinary, humble and completely unsuspecting people like Maggie are properly protected from these outrageous individuals who cause such misery, charging thousands of pounds in the process. :mad:

ukmaggie45

RAS wrote: »

Maggie

This is gob-smacking. Not a lawyer but even I understand Deeds of Variation (DS and I had intended to do one if DM cut DB out of her will).

We'd never heard of a Deed of Variation before it was mentioned by sdooley in post #22. But why would we? We'd never had to deal with a will before, and relied on S1 to know what he needed to do... Even when asked directly about the DoV he said it wouldn't work and if it did "everyone would do it". We had assumed my parents would have chosen a decent solicitor (he did the conveyancing for the flat for them, and I suspect he holds the deeds to it. :eek: ), but he didn't discuss charges with them, and never told us what they were when he started work. In fact I am shocked at what he charges, especially given the total lack of service, he's always out, and he doesn't appear to comply with Solicitors' Rules. :mad: I do think it used to be a reputable firm, I knew the daughter of one of the old partners when I was at school. But I wouldn't recommend them now!

I'm assuming DM is dear Mother and DB is dear brother?

RAS wrote: »

We had major problems with the solicitors who held mum's will but had not been appointed executors; tried to prevent us contacting ex-partner who was executor and insist we used them to obtain letters of administration.

Believe me, I will be advising everybody I know to NOT use a solicitor as Executor! Assuming I manage to get a will in place, it will be up to my heirs to decide if they need legal advice to sort things out - I guess for some people it's worth the cost to not have to deal with the paperwork. For folks working full time, and maybe long hours, it may not be feasible for them to do the work themselves. But should be a choice they make, not something foisted on them by me!

RAS wrote: »

After three months we decided to call in out own solicitor (who had initially advised that the estate was so simple, we could adminster it ourselves). The solicitors holding the will then claimed that the executor was unfit to renounce his executorship, which proved to be lies.

Urk, sounds like you had a rough ride too! :mad: We seem to be midway getting the papers transferred to S2, the files have arrived, but not the stuff about what's in the client account.

RAS wrote: »

Fortunately, I had been managing the accounts and could give our solicitor a good estimate of the value of the estate. Despite not having the original will, our solicitor paid the IHT for us within the HRMC timetable, from the bank account she could not yet transfer to their holding account.

We only consulted S2 after the 6 months was up, so we had to pay interest on the IHT (which shouldn't have been paid in the first place so far as I can make out). When the client accounts arrive we'll know what was charged in interest, suspect it's an amount that would have been useful to have.

RAS wrote: »

We ended up paying quite considerable legal fees because of their behavoiur but I think the firm holding the will would have charged us a lot more if we had allowed them to do the job.

We will be paying for S2, they have higher (though not much!) hourly fees, but their estate share is smaller than S1 is saying he could claim. And they are STEP qualified, so probate really is a speciality for them. S1 claims on the law society search for a solicitor page that he is specialist in wills and probate (along with some other stuff) which I would most certainly disagree with! :mad:

RAS wrote: »

Once we had the will and the renunciations, it took three months to pay out the bulk of the estate and another three to tie up the loose ends.

Some of the estate has been paid out, but it's over 3 months now since probate was granted, and the moneys still haven't been collected in - DD and SIL went to the flat last night to collect the dehumidifier to borrow as they've just had some plastering done in their new extension and want to dry it out. They found some mail, when we opened it we found a cheque made out to S1 for £18,000! I really despair of ever getting things sorted out.

Not pleased, as if had been done in a timely manner I could have got some savings sorted out at better interest rates over the last few weeks. As it is, am hanging on to the payment I had already for emergency use. And the shares - well, you know what's happening to stocks and shares at the moment!

We may still need to go through the Legal Complaints Service - we'll have to wait and see. But it all just prolongs the misery. Having said that though, I am not prepared to just let this go, and neither is DH who is the other Executor, thank God!

Thanks for sharing your story, RAS. Part of why I keep this thread up to date as much as possible is I hope it will open other people's eyes to how ruinous having a solicitor as executor can be.

Best wishes.

ukmaggie45

Thanks Sloughflint for the link for storing Wills with the Court. Here it is again just so it's easy to find.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1202.htm

Once we have wills we will use them for storage. It seems a real bargain to me! :money: Maybe we should make what one might term "intermediate wills" for the short term - God alone knows when we will have more than our house to leave! And even that isn't worth much now. :rolleyes:

Best wishes. :A And Thanks again.

ukmaggie45

monkey_spank wrote: »

Well done Maggie for persevering with this. :T

Thank you. We will try not to be worn down by it all and pursue it.

monkey_spank wrote: »

This thread (and others too) sadly go to the show that our legal profession, and in particular the murky area of Wills and probate has a lot to answer for.

I have to repeat myself here, and say again DO NOT USE A SOLICITOR AS EXECUTOR. Sorry for shouting, but can't help it!

monkey_spank wrote: »

The advice bandied about so commonly on this forum of 'go and see a solicitor' is sometimes the worse thing you can do. The sheer torture that S1 has put Maggie through is a classic case of an incompetent then doing everything possible to cover his backside - something solicitors are extremely adept at doing.

While not as bad as being hung, drawn and quartered, it has been painful dealing with S1, and not helped by his general "I know best" bullying attitude. I do feel that he is busy (or rather it's probably his wife) trying to cover up what a mess the estate papers are in.

monkey_spank wrote: »

I know several people who've been on the receiving end of similar behaviour and I know these so called professionals are still operating and doing very nicely, having wriggled out of their predicament by smoothing things over with 'a full and final settlement' at the end.

There's no way we are going for 'a full and final settlement' without we get someone else to look at the bill. Back to Legal Complaints Service then if necessary.

monkey_spank wrote: »

I personally think the authorities need to take a stronger line on regulation so that ordinary, humble and completely unsuspecting people like Maggie are properly protected from these outrageous individuals who cause such misery, charging thousands of pounds in the process. :mad:

Hear hear!!! :T

Errata

I have to repeat myself here, and say again DO NOT USE A SOLICITOR AS EXECUTOR. Sorry for shouting, but can't help it!

I know you're having a seriously rotten time with your bloke, but not all solicitors operate in such an incompetent fashion, and some estates are greatly benefitted by having a solicitor as one of the executors.

Have to say, if I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to put S1's windows through.

sloughflint

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

There's no way we are going for 'a full and final settlement' without we get someone else to look at the bill. Back to Legal Complaints Service then if necessary.

I could be wrong but I took monkey spank's comment on 'full and final settlement' to mean compensation like I mentioned many pages back rather than the bill.

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

S1 claims on the law society search for a solicitor page that he is specialist in wills and probate (along with some other stuff) which I would most certainly disagree with! :mad:

The firm that I did a 'deal' with many years ago still to this day has the person in question listed in that search facility as a wills and probate specialist!!!!

Errata wrote: »

but not all solicitors operate in such an incompetent fashion, and some estates are greatly benefitted by having a solicitor as one of the executors.

Can you elaborate?
What sort of scenario/estate are you thinking of where it is beneficial to choose a solicitor as executor at time of writing a will? How would you ensure the person was up to the job in view of how difficult it is to remove from executor duties?

dzug1

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

Thanks Sloughflint for the link for storing Wills with the Court. Here it is again just so it's easy to find.

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1202.htm

Once we have wills we will use them for storage. It seems a real bargain to me! :money: Maybe we should make what one might term "intermediate wills" for the short term - God alone knows when we will have more than our house to leave! And even that isn't worth much now. :rolleyes:

Best wishes. :A And Thanks again.

Just make sure that someone knows they are there! It's the last place most people would think of looking (which shows how underused it is)