Solicitor slow over probate

ukmaggie45

localhero wrote: »

Just thinking about the EPAs, if they weren't signed by all the parties including the attorneys - they won't be valid. As they are still in the solicitor's possession, I think it's safe to assume it's too late.

All the Attorneys signed and sent back recorded delivery or signed for or something like that. So far as we know (attorneys are each other and both our kids).

Still remains to be seen of course!

Thanks for all your discussion on all these issues - much appreciated.

ukmaggie45

Husband will be going on a 3 day week (Mon-Wed) in November :j so was allowed to have this Thursday and Friday off to try and get some stuff sorted out. He will pay the time back come November.

Thursday morning he rang S1 to find he was in court and not in until Friday afternoon. Secretary repeated what she was clearly told to say to husband ("S1 has said you can only see the estate papers when they are complete"; his response: "I guess you are not the person I have to argue with about this.")

Had first meeting with IFA on Thursday afternoon. He told us it's necessary to keep making a nuisance of ourselves with S1 until we get to the end. He also saw my point that the insurance premiums husband had to pay on the flat till Mum died should have come out of the estate, as the way things are husband has paid income tax on the money already, and when I have to pay him back (not that he'd force me to :cool: , but I want to) the money will also have been charged the 40% IHT.

Friday we both managed to see our GP over health issues that have been hanging around for around 2 years now with all the faffing around we've had to do. (it's hard to get appt as they won't book in advance)

When we got home, S2 returned the call husband made late yesterday afternoon. The Deed has been drafted, and a copy is being sent to S1 for him to sign. Husband should get his copy to sign next week. (not sure if this is right, but husband may well have been confused)

The effect of the Deed is that father's will is changed to leave money to me (minus the £10,000 paid out already to husband as in father's will - the only legacy other than to mother). S2 reckons we should get back £116,000 tax plus interest, prob around £120,000. :eek:

Needless to say I am feeling rather strange about all this! :huh: I am not going to celebrate yet - there's many a slip twixt cup and lip... In fact I feel quite sick in some ways!

Husband also noted that in the letter he wrote S1 on 30th August he asked on what basis he would be calculating his charges - 6 weeks later no reply.

Friday afternoon we bought a de-humidifier and set it running at parents' flat. Buyer is still interested but will be away next week.

Husband phoned S1. He asked how much was in the accounts now, and got a straight answer for once! Husband then asked at what point we could start to pay out to beneficiaries - "We can begin thinking about that now" - he seemed to take it that husband was particularly interested in his legacy and told him it was "£10,000, no, sorry, I missed page 2 of the will, £20,000." :rolleyes:

Husband then said he wished Accountant to look at the estate papers with him. S1 said "In an estate of this complexity I sometimes get an accountant to draw up the estate accounts, and although we don't usually use XY&Z I was already thinking that since they used to be (parents names) accountants it would be a good idea to use them."

Phoned Accountant, who said that yes, if XY&Z were approached by S1 they will do it. But Accountant (henceforward A1) has never prepared estate accounts, so would ask Another Accountant (henceforward A2) to do it as it's their speciality. We met A2 the other week, and seems very efficient and through them that we found S2. So we're happy with that. :j

Saturday morning got letter from S2 confirming they have prepared the draft DoV and has forwarded it to S1 to sign. When it's returned will either forward to husband for signature or he can call into the office if he prefers.

Asks if we want S2 to exhibit the Deed to the Capital Taxes Office and also put in reclaim for IHT. This needs S1's agreement for S2 to do this, and it will fall outside the agreed price for preparing the Deed . S2 will telephone us when gets the Deed back and we can discuss it further then.

We are happy to pay S2 to do this, as I think having come this far with their help we feel it would be a shame if something went awry now! We know the charges up front, and I imagine S2 will give us some indication of approximately how many hours it is likely to take - of course we realise that this isn't binding, but just to give us a rough idea.

Hmm, I think that's the story more or less up to date! :rolleyes:

ukmaggie45

sloughflint wrote: »

I wonder if he charges by the hour or a percentage of the estate to be so accommodating? I take it still no news on charges? Either that or he's finally realised it's best to keep your husband sweet in view of the mess he's created.
At least progress is being made. These are minor details.

Meant to answer this sooner, sorry Sloughflint! We still have no news on charges, which I guess we'll have to try and chase up again. There's just been too much going on recently - see my latest update!

Took another look at the Legal Complaints Service website again yesterday and found some interesting information about their Remuneration Scheme. Husband will apply for a remuneration certificate when the time comes.

I don't have time right now (really need a bath! ) but I found some stuff on DoVs that I will try and post later. Thanks for the links you gave a few posts back also, there were at least a couple that I hadn't seen before. :T

sloughflint

A few things popped into my mind as I read your post,Maggie.

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

Secretary repeated what she was clearly told to say to husband ("S1 has said you can only see the estate papers when they are complete"; his response: "I guess you are not the person I have to argue with about this.")

This is something I would absolutely dig my heels in over in your husband's shoes. He is co executor so surely has every right to see the estate papers at any stage of the process if he wishes to. S2 should be able to confirm this.

I'm not exactly surprised that S1 doesn't want your husband to see them though. He sounds like a very disorganised person indeed.

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

Had first meeting with IFA on Thursday afternoon. He told us it's necessary to keep making a nuisance of ourselves with S1 until we get to the end.

Couldn't agree more. I would also suggest that this be done in writing preferably by email.

There seems to be a lot of phone dialogue between your husband and solicitor ( or secretary:rolleyes:). He'll be a slippery eel and the more evidence you can gather about how much chasing/lack of communication the better.

Also it's very easy to deny conversations or suggest that your husband misinterpreted aspects ( like the conveyancing side of things)during verbal communications.

ukmaggie45 wrote: »

He also saw my point that the insurance premiums husband had to pay on the flat till Mum died should have come out of the estate, as the way things are husband has paid income tax on the money already, and when I have to pay him back (not that he'd force me to :cool: , but I want to) the money will also have been charged the 40% IHT.

I confess that I didn't quite understand the income tax aspect.

I think I mentioned at the beginning of the thread that the insurance premiums up to date of death should have been accounted for on the IHT form so there is certainly an IHT implication.

You say you would pay your husband back. Unless you are sole beneficiary, I don't think that would be fair on you.The insurance payments ( pre and post death) should come out of the estate and the balance of the estate after payment of debts should then be distributed according to the wishes of the Will,I'd have expected.

Errata

Also it's very easy to deny conversations or suggest that your husband misinterpreted aspects ( like the conveyancing side of things)during verbal communications.

This won't happen if after every single conversation a letter is written confirming what was discussed and agreed ending with a request for the recipient to respond in writing by return if anything in the letter is incorrect and that if no reply is received the writer understands that the recipient agrees with the contents.
Letters such as these should NOT be sent by email but by Royal Mail using their special delivery process or hand delivered and signed for.

djohn2002uk

sloughflint wrote: »

I confess that I didn't quite understand the income tax aspect.

I think that she is saying her husband payed the insurance with money he earned and therefore had been taxed on it. And the money she pays him back with will have been taxed via IHT. Therefore that money he now has has been taxed twice.

sloughflint

Errata wrote: »

This won't happen if after every single conversation a letter is written confirming what was discussed and agreed ending with a request for the recipient to respond in writing by return if anything in the letter is incorrect and that if no reply is received the writer understands that the recipient agrees with the contents.
Letters such as these should NOT be sent by email but by Royal Mail using their special delivery process or hand delivered and signed for.

What you are suggesting would by far be the ideal solution but in my experience not practical with the sheer volume of communication necessary when things go wrong, which is why I recommended email as a working solution. I still possess saved incoming and outgoing emails and a great many of them there are too.

localhero

I think email is preferable, because you can be sure when they actually received it rather than be told the letter 'is in the system'.

Also in view of how contentious the matter has become, I wouldn't engage in any telephone conversations with S1 at all.

sloughflint

Email is a useful tool even for when there are no problems. It circumvents the problem of either party being in meetings/on the phone/out of office.

But here, I would have terminated verbal discussions as soon as I was told that the conveyancing matter was a 'misunderstanding' if not before that. I am a huge fan of keeping things in writing.

ukmaggie45

Thanks everyone for your replies to my last update.

I'm afraid S1 doesn't have email. Or if he does it isn't on his headed notepaper. Suspect the very idea of such technology in his workplace is threatening, plus it would make it far too easy for clients to actually get in touch. :mad:

S2 does have email, so we do have the option of contacting them that way should we need to do so urgently.

As usual, these notes are based on husband's notes in The Big Book. (we need to get a Volume 3 ready for use shortly!)

Wed 15 Oct husband phoned S1. He was just about to dictate a letter to husband with "interim" figures for the 2 estates. About 3/4 of the amount needed to pay out the beneficiaries (our 2 daughters, one of my cousins, and bequests to 2 of the GPs who had "looked after" Mum.

S1 had received the DoV and signed it and sent it back on 14th.

Husband will send him addresses of our daughters, and he will send out an interim payment of half their bequests. I suggested that he also paid out to my cousin and the 2 GPs, husband has now written to S1 (to be posted today) asking for that, and also confirming what was said in the conversation. Errata, I'm afraid he didn't add you wording in but I will try and make sure he does in future - thankyou! :T Will try to get him to post it signed for in future, but it's quite difficult for husband to get to PO in his lunch hour as it means he don't get time for lunch.

Husband has asked S1 to transfer the remaining bonds and equities (now worth well over £40,000 less since Mum's death) to my name, confirmed in his letter to S1.

Parental flat can be "transferred by assent" from the executors to my name, but S1 suggests waiting a bit longer since the sale is agreed... Well, it isn't yet, and to be honest I'm not sure I want to sell it now, but that's just a thought. We have a potential purchaser who hasn't been put off (maybe that should read "run like hell as fast as possible" ) by the damp coming in to the bedroom. But they haven't put a surveyor in yet, so it may well all come to nought anyway.

Husband asked S1 about our PoAs again - moment of silence - "where were we up to on that?" "You were looking for them". "Sorry, I had forgotten, will write self a post-it note." Both our daughters remember signing them and sending them back (in time for the deadline), so I hope he can manage to lay his hands on them. :rolleyes:

He has not approached our Accountancy firm about preparing the final accounts yet, but it has "always" been his intention to do so. Yeah, sure! :rolleyes:

When we saw S2 originally they said that normally they advise beneficiaries to liquidise all equities immediately, unless they wish to keep them of course. Once probate was granted (end of July 08) prices were nowhere near as bad as they are now. So if S1 had suggested we might have gone with that. Admittedly hindsight is a wonderful thing , but it wasn't even suggested.

The thing that now worries me about the equities is that I think for CGT they are valued on the date of transfer (not the date of death as for IHT) so even if they do eventually rise to the value at the time of Mum's death I will be stuck for CGT on top of the IHT already paid for them at the higher value. If you see what I mean! Of course I don't know a lot about this stuff yet, but am desperately trying to do some homework on taxation! _pale_ My soon to be Accountants will probably be able to advise me on stuff like that if it ever happens I expect!

Half expecting mail from one or other of solicitors today, so will update again if we get anything. If I'm awake - been up since 4am with gut ache etc so may well try and get a nap later.