MMD: Should you take the kids out of school for a holiday?

Caterina

Hi Jambala

I personally believe without the shade of a doubt that a child would gain more in a holiday in Majorca running around (learning to entertain oneself, discovering new food, landscapes, insects, whatever....) and mixing with different age groups, than with a group of kids their same age, constricted by a national curriculum, lack of resources, lack of age diversity, lack of power (a BIGGIE, this one, for little children!), lack of variety.

I do not entirely knock school, although I wish I had homeschooled my kids for much longer than I have. School is good for some things, like teaching a modicum of discipline, routine etc...but I really feel that it is widely over-rated as a provider of other forms of education e.g. literacy. If this wasn't the case, why are so many people illiterate when they leave school?

I have stayed in touch with many of my old homeschooling friends (the parents I mean) and I do not know of any of the little children who were homeschooled when mine were little to be illiterate, in fact on the contrary all those children seem to be very successful, articulate, pleasant young adults - of course, success is also an individual perception, but don't let's open that can of worms!
Caterina

mrcow

barri wrote: »

I'd take them to the Eur. court for Human Rights. OR say the kids were sick. OR just don't pay the "fine". A week or 2 at that age doesn't matter. Ex teacher.

This is quite interesting though - is the fine actually enforcable?

What is the fine actually for? We've never been told Our LEA has a fine system in place. I don't know anyone who has been fined as yet, but I can't see anyone willingly paying it.

ten0rman

I actually agree that one should not, unless unavoidable, take children out of school. Our holidays were always taken during school holidays, in this country, either camping or caravanning, and for a long number of years managed 2 fortnightly holidays each year. We did not take foreign holidays - simply could not justify the expense, but instead opted for the above.

We did take our youngest out of school for one day during his year 9 (I think). This was for a last reunion dinner for a Scouts Local Association of which I was once a member and which was closing down. By definition this was a once only event, and was held on a Sunday at which alcohol was available. Frankly I did not fancy driving back some 120 miles towing a caravan after that.
My initial request was turned down on the grounds that the school did not give permission for holidays. I then pointed out that a) it wasn't a holiday; b) it was by definition a once only event; c) I didn't fancy driving home afterwards; d) although it was exam time, there were no exams scheduled for my son (in fact he'd finished by then); and e) this was the first time I had ever asked for a day off like this having put three children through the state system. I also expressed my disappointment at this reply. I was then granted the day off.

I do agree that there are exceptional circumstances, ie as a junior member of staff where scheduled leave is used, then this can be difficult, but it shouldn't happen every year. I absolutely do not agree that cheapness of holidays is a reason - one does not have to go abroad. I also have very little sympathy with those people who, because both partners work, can't marry up their holiday periods - my wife did not work, preferring instead, and with my blessing, to concentrate on our children - another reason why we used camping & caravanning.

In short no, no and no!

Regards,

ten0rman

hhobba

When I was still in school, my parents always pressed into me the importance of issues like this - I was never allowed to take time off school for holidays or otherwise, and although I probably would have (as any schoolkid would!) I did not necessarily "want to" either.

In fact, when kids started disappearing for two weeks at a time for a holiday, or (even worse) took a day or two off because it was their birthday (so?!) I felt that they didn't really care about their education - and I was probably right.

I got nine "A" Highers out of it at the end of the six years, and I'm pretty sure none of the kids who skipped school so liberally got anything close. I'd say that's worth it.

Jambala

Hi Caterina

You make good points, however I can't help feeling that you have a negative view of the experiences that children in primary education gain. Obviously I don't know you and I have no idea what particular experiences you or your children have encountered. I am always the first to admit that there are some awful schools out there, but the majority try their utmost to give their pupils the skills needed for life beyond primary school. Not just from an academic standpoint; their confidence and interpersonal skills, too.

You mention the constriction of the national curriculum. Certainly in SATs years, this is an issue, as OFSTED have identified. But in most of the schools I have seen, the children get a rich, rewarding curriculum with opportunities for tasting new food, visiting different landscapes (Belgium this year), etc., as part of a structured education programme. In my school the children put on plays to their parents based on texts studied in literacy, they run websites, make films, presentations and podcasts, sing in the choir in church, learn different languages, play county sports as a school team, join athletics and dance clubs, program computers, attend a breakfast club, etc. etc. and this is all run alongside (and to complement and enhance) the national curriculum. This cannot be done during a fortnight's holiday in Majorca :-)

As I said before, I think a child makes massive gains by visiting another country, by spending time with family and friends, and by interacting with people he/she would normally not get a chance to. I entirely agree with you here. But this should be done during the 13 weeks set aside for it: the school holidays.

joannakinley

As a teacher it does make a not inconsiderable amount of extra work for me when children are missing for a week or two. It also means that some of my precious time in the class room is taken up explaining missed work to children who have been on holiday when I should be spreading the time more evenly between all the children.

I don't deny that spending time together on a family holiday can be really beneficial. We had our first family holiday this year with our 4 and 1 year olds. We had a great time in mid Wales. We were on a really tight budget, had a great time in the school holidays. We spent less than half what we would have spent if we had gone abroad. As a child my parents always took us on a two week holiday in the school holidays. They were on a really tight budget with 6 of us. We went abroad twice. All the rest of the time we went on UK holidays staying in cheap accommodation and had some great times together. What is the need to go abroad. Hire a tent and go camping in the UK. That way you keep it cheap and spend family time together and miss no school. I don't feel I missed out not going abroad as a kid. I did all that when I was earning my own money before I had kids.

judy2357

It was a few years ago now but we took our children on holiday during Activity Week which is a bit of compromise as its slightly cheaper being before the children break up for summer and they dont actually miss their school work. I also felt that rather than spend the money on one of our 3 children to go for an expensive holiday during activity week for just a little more all 5 of us could go.

lindsay2610

Whatever happened to common sense?

3 weeks out in a GCSE year - no
The final week out of the July term when your child is 8 years old - yes

If it's an important year then forgo your holiday or find somewhere cheaper in the school holidays, but there are also times of year when it will not be detrimental to your child and the benefits outweigh missing their lessons.

We took our children out of school on occasion when they were smaller and my daughter just got a sackful of As and A*s in her GCSEs.

And my parents used to take me out on occasion too and I can assure you I know I can't always have what I want and I'm a very conscientious employee with a strong sense of social responsibility!! And debt-free too!

It's just not that black and white.....

joanna_willett

nibs wrote: »

Please do not tell me that his education will suffer as a result of my decision.
He loses more days a year due to snow day closures and training days.Then there is the dissruption caused by the amount of days some teachers take off sick.

I have to pick up on this. I am a primary teacher, and I know from experience that if a child misses 2 weeks in term time, especially in KS2 which the hypothetical 8 and 10 year old would be, they could quite conceivably miss a whole topic in Literacy that will not be revisited except as part of revision in year 6. If that topic is the one that appears in the SATS paper then they are going to struggle. In other subjects, they could miss a major part of the topic and this is a problem when they return - both for their learning, as they are behind, and for the teacher, who then has to bring them up to speed whilst still catering for the rest of the class.

As for a previous suggestion of asking for the work in advance this would seem quite a sensible idea but due to the sheer amount of work to be done in a teaching day, it is not really feasible for a teacher to set extra work for children to take on holiday, nor to mark it on their return.

Training days do not take days away from teaching - schools HAVE to factor in 5 training days a year, they do not just choose to do this instead of teaching! They still have to meet a set number of teaching days per year. Snow closure - well, that's pretty rare unless you're up north - in which case it's a quirk of geography, and if you don't like then I suppose you could always move.

As for teachers being sick, it's a miracle more teachers are not off sick more often. I have been teaching for 5 years now and it's still the most stressful job I've ever encountered. That's not a complaint, just the way it is. It's a wonderful job, but a very hard one, and it is easy to get run down (especially if your personal time is eaten into - for example by producing extra work that has been requested by parents!). You are surrounded by an average of 30 children, most of the time at least one of them is ill, and you are guaranteed to catch bugs sometimes. You cannot teach to the best of your abilities when you are ill, nor is it good to spread the germs around yourself. Despite this, most teachers I know still try to teach even when they're too ill as the hassle of taking a sick day simply isn't worth it and the stigma that goes with it also makes it difficult.

Stepping off my high horse - I do agree that holidays can be a cultural experience - especially if the parents are keen to make them into such. But don't go around thinking that 2 weeks out of school will have no effect. It will, and frequently does. How important you think this is, is up to you, obviously, but it can't be ignored.

gomeraman

As an ex-teacher my experience is that the end of September is too important a time to miss school. However, I would happily take my children out of school for the last week of any term as it's generally a waste of time being there as staff and children are absolutely knackered - no real learning takes place.