New "Simple fares" for rail travel = fare increases for YP holders

yorkie2

anewman wrote: »

When I tried to buy a ticket from Leeds to Hull to get to a job interview I went to those ticket machines which would not let me select young person's rail card. I went to ticket thingies and the bloke said "you can't use it before 10am" so I just ended up buying a day return saver instead as it was after 9.30am (yet I didn't want to wait until after 10am to get the train).

Fares from Leeds to Hull with a YP:-
Saver Return £12.50 (valid on any train)
Cheap day return £10.25 (valid after 0930)

Those fares are above the minimum fare requirement of £8 so eligible for the full discount. The bloke was wrong. Complaining to Northern will probably get you £5 or so in vouchers and, more importantly, get the bloke re-trained

Interestingly this fare is not one of those affected by the aforementioned increases, as the Saver is being renamed "Off Peak" even though it is valid at any time, so the £8 minimum still applies.

robt_2

I think you are missing my point, so I will state it again:

The actual fares are NOT going up. Railcard discounts are going to be correctly enforced, which may result in some fares appearing to rise. The renaming and simplification of tickets is not relevant, it is just a coincidence that it is happening at the same time as the railcard restrictions are being enforced.

Your complaining that people are no longer getting something cheaper than they were entitled to - thats all there is to it.

yorkie2

robt wrote: »

I think you are missing my point, so I will state it again:

The actual fares are NOT going up. Railcard discounts are going to be correctly enforced,

The enforcing rules are being changed, it is not a case of being "correct" or "incorrect"

Define "correctly" enforced anyway? Is the Hull example (above) not "correct" and if not, why not?

robt wrote: »

which may result in some fares appearing to rise. The renaming and simplification of tickets is not relevant,

Yes it is - it is the new name of "Anytime" for some of the old Saver fares that DIRECTLY causes the fare rises.

robt wrote: »

it is just a coincidence that it is happening at the same time as the railcard restrictions are being enforced.

No it isn't! The new fares are in place from 7 September, so the increased fares for YP holders occurs on 8 September. Where are you getting your information from?

robt wrote: »

Your complaining that people are no longer getting something cheaper than they were entitled to - thats all there is to it.

I am complaining that the mininum fares for some Saver fares is increasing to £16 just because they are renamed Anytime!

robt_2

yorkie2 wrote: »

The enforcing rules are being changed, it is not a case of being "correct" or "incorrect"

Define "correctly" enforced anyway? Is the Hull example (above) not "correct" and if not, why not?

Yes it is - it is the new name of "Anytime" for some of the old Saver fares that DIRECTLY causes the fare rises.

No it isn't! The new fares are in place from 7 September, so the increased fares for YP holders occurs on 8 September. Where are you getting your information from?

I am complaining that the mininum fares for some Saver fares is increasing to £16 just because they are renamed Anytime!

This is clearly going nowhere as you are in your own little bubble, and will not even listen to what is being said, so I'm not going to bother explaining (again).

Everything I have said is factual - if you want to argue over it then feel free to PM me to save clogging up the thread.

yorkie2

robt, what's the point in posting if you are not going to address any of my points?

yorkie2

Sample price rises for "16-25" (formerly "Young Persons") Railcard holders.

All fares shown are return fares for travelling at 'peak' time, returning within 1 month.

It is still possible to get the original "old" fare after 10am, and it may also be possible to get other "Off Peak" tickets at times slightly earlier than 10am - times vary by route.

These increases will have a particular impact on, for example, University students who need to travel from home to Uni on Monday mornings, and back home on Friday evenings.

The cause of the price increases is because the old Saver fares are subject to an £8 minimum with a 16-25 card; the replacement Anytime fares are subject to a £16 mininum with a 16-25 card. (In case you are wondering "Why are some of the replacement fares lower than £16 if £16 is the minimum?", the answer is: those are undiscounted - not using the YP card)

NORTHERN
From            To           Old fare   Replacement fare  Increase
Hull            Scarborough   £9.85     £14.90            51%   
Wigan Stations  Lancaster     £8.90     £13.50            52% 
York            Sheffield    £11.70     £16.00            37%
Newcastle       Carlisle     £10.05     £15.20            51%
Preston         Leeds        £11.35     £16.00            41%
 
GREAT WESTERN
From            To           Old fare   Replacement fare  Increase
Truro           Plymouth     £11.70     £16.00            50%
Torquay         Exeter        £8.00     £12.00            50%       
Warminster      Bath Spa     £10.55     £16.00            52% 
Cheltenham      Bristol TM   £12.10     £16.00            32%   
Plymouth        Exeter       £11.20     £16.00            43%           
 
LONDON MIDLAND                                          
From            To           Old fare   Replacement fare  Increase
Stafford        Coventry      £8.50     £13.60            60%     
Crewe           Liverpool     £8.50     £13.60            60%           
Northampton     Birmingham    £9.45     £15.10            60%
Hereford        Birmingham    £9.85     £15.70            59%
Shrewsbury      Wolverhampton £8.25     £13.20            60%                                      

yorkie2

It is true.

The story has now appeared in the Telegraph.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2650843/Train-fares-set-to-rise-as-ticket-system-overhauled.html

Apparently FGW are changing their fares so people in that area should not be affected. I am not sure how they are going to do this.

The easiest way to simplify things and not put any fares up, would be if they minimum fares for railcard holders were simplified and the £16 minimum rate abolished.

Pete268

nomoneytoday wrote: »

You can't use any discount card for journeys into London before 9.30/10am..

The trains are full of commuters already, the passes are to get non-commuters onto the less crowded services

I think that only applies to trains where the journey starts and finishes in the London area.

I regularly use my disabled railcard on peak trains (the ones that arrive in London from about 0800hrs till 1030hrs) when traveling from York and get the third off the price.

I gather these new price increases only apply to the young persons railcard and not the disabled card etc?

Peter

yorkie2

Pete268 wrote: »

I think that only applies to trains where the journey starts and finishes in the London area.

Didn't notice that post earlier. Probably talking about the rule that you can't use Family Railcards for journeys wholly in the (former) NSE area before 10am (or something daft and complex like that). Have they simplified any of these complexities? Nope!!!

Pete268 wrote: »

I gather these new price increases only apply to the young persons railcard and not the disabled card etc?

Peter

I'm not aware of any MIN fare for DSB railcards so I believe that is correct, yep.

TwistedPsycho

Good Evening,

Lets start with: I am a member of rail staff with a remit for tickets, therefore I have an insight into things and the way that they work. I work beyond my position in my own time to look at inconsistencies that require attention. I am also a mystery shopper who audits ticket offices outside my own Train Operating Company area.

Down to Business:

There have been some fare revisions. In my own area this resolves inconsistencies which is popular here where you can travel to a station beyond your destination and pay less than a ticket to your destination. (To clarify a ticket from London to Reading being cheaper than a ticket from London to Slough - THIS IS NOT THE CASE, JUST AN ILLUSTRATION to show what I mean - and avoid showing who I am).

There is only ONE wholesale change to the ticket restrictions. When a Standard Open/First Open becomes a Standard Anytime/First Anytime, the OUTWARD portion of the ticket will become "Date of Issue Only" whereas currently they have a one month validity. This is because a lot of these tickets were being used time after time until they were physically "cancelled" by on train or barrier staff, and this is being abused on a vast basis. Obviously, genuine moneysavers would not do this but unfortunatly (mostly commuting) people do.

I am all for Moneysaving and I will help out where required, however some people do take the mickey and PLEASE do not be surprised if on train staff get suspicious of many legitimate money saving ticket techniques.