problem tenant taking me for a ride

bookduck

mickymellon wrote: »

tenancy contract:

P1
P2
P3
P4
P5
P6
P7
P8
P9
P10
P11
P12 Thanks for taking the time to take a look and help

from and including P5 onwards are all the same the same page (.jpg) as p4

I would get onto the council and have an informal word, just to tell them that she will be evicted and has she paid her council tax, otherwise they are going to loose out, so that they can hassle her too. You could also try the phone company etc, but don't expect to learn much, but no one likes to loose money.

mickymellon

house184 wrote: »

Can you scan a copy of your notice / letter that you served?

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]


[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]
Housing Act 1988 section 8 as amended by section 151 of the Housing Act 1996

[/FONT][FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Notice seeking possession of a property let on an Assured Tenancy or an Assured Agricultural Occupancy[/FONT]

• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Please write clearly in black ink[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT][/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Please tick boxes where appropriate and cross out text marked with an asterisk (* ) that does not apply.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]This form should be used where possession of accommodation let under an assured tenancy, an assured agricultural occupancy or an assured shorthold tenancy is sought on one of the grounds in Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988.[/FONT]

• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Do not use this form if possession is sought on the "shorthold" ground under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988 from an assured shorthold tenant where the fixed term has come to an end or, for assured shorthold tenancies with no fixed term which started on or after 28th February 1997, after six months has elapsed. There is no prescribed form for these cases, but you must give notice in writing.[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]1. To: Miss[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Name(s) of tenant(s)/licensee(s)*
[/FONT]


[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]2. Your landlord/licensor* intends to apply to the court for an order requiring you to give up possession of: [/FONT]


F

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Address of premises[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]3. Your landlord/licensor* intends to seek possession on ground(s) .............................................. in Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988, as amended by the Housing Act 1996, which read(s): [/FONT]


Ground 8: Both at the date of the service of the notice under section 8 of this Act relating to the proceedings for possession and at the date of the hearing— (a)if rent is payable weekly or fortnightly, at least thirteen weeks' rent is unpaid; (b)if rent is payable monthly, at least three months' rent is unpaid; (c)if rent is payable quarterly, at least one quarter’s rent is more than three months in arrears; and (d)if rent is payable yearly, at least three months' rent is more than three months in arrears; and for the purpose of this ground “rent” means rent lawfully due from the tenant.
Ground 10: Some rent lawfully due from the tenant— (a)is unpaid on the date on which the proceedings for possession are begun; (b)except where subsection (1)(b) of section 8 of this Act applies, was in arrears at the date of the service of the notice under that section relating to those proceedings. Ground 11: Whether or not any rent is in arrears on the date on which proceedings for possession are begun, the tenant has persistently delayed paying rent which has become lawfully due.
[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Give the full text (as set out in the Housing Act 1988 as amended by the Housing Act 1996) of each ground which is being relied on. Continue on a separate sheet if necessary.[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]4. Give a full explanation of why each ground is being relied on: [/FONT]


Ground 8: Rent is due for a three month period coming up to four months in total. Ground 10: Months April, May, July and August remain unpaid
Ground 11: Contractual date of rent payment is 4th of the month, various recorded correspondace sent asking to adhere to this.
[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Continue on a separate sheet if necessary.[/FONT]





[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Notes on the grounds for possession[/FONT]

• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]If the court is satisfied that any of grounds 1 to 8 is established, it must make an order (but see below in respect of fixed term tenancies).[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Before the court will grant an order on any of grounds 9 to 17, it must be satisfied that it is reasonable to require you to leave. This means that, if one of these grounds is set out in section 3, you will be able to suggest to the court that it is not reasonable that you should have to leave, even if you accept that the ground applies.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]The court will not make an order under grounds 1, 3 to 7, 9 or 16, to take effect during the fixed term of the tenancy (if there is one) and it will only make an order during the fixed term on grounds 2, 8, 10 to 15 or 17 if the terms of the tenancy make provision for it to be brought to an end on any of these grounds.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Where the court makes an order for possession solely on ground 6 or 9, the landlord must pay your reasonable removal expenses.[/FONT]
  

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]5. The court proceedings will not begin until after: [/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Give the earliest date on which court proceedings can be brought[/FONT]

• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 1, 2, 5 to 7, 9 or 16, court proceedings cannot begin earlier than 2 months from the date this notice is served on you (even where one of grounds 3, 4, 8, 10 to 13, 14A, 15 or 17 is specified) and not before the date on which the tenancy (had it not been assured) could have been brought to an end by a notice to quit served at the same time as this notice.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Where the landlord is seeking possession on grounds 3, 4, 8, 10 to 13, 14A, 15 or 17, court proceedings cannot begin earlier than 2 weeks from the date this notice is served (unless one of 1, 2, 5 to 7, 9 or 16 grounds is also specified in which case they cannot begin earlier than two months from the date this notice is served).[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Where the landlord is seeking possession on ground 14 (with or without other grounds), court proceedings cannot begin before the date this notice is served.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Where the landlord is seeking possession on ground 14A, court proceedings cannot begin unless the landlord has served, or has taken all reasonable steps to serve, a copy of this notice on the partner who has left the property.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]After the date shown in section 5, court proceedings may be begun at once but not later than 12 months from the date on which this notice is served. After this time the notice will lapse and a new notice must be served before possession can be sought.[/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]6. Name and address of landlord/licensor* .

[/FONT][FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]To be signed and dated by the landlord or licensor or his agent (someone acting for him). If there are joint landlords each landlord or the agent must sign unless one signs on behalf of the rest with their agreement.[/FONT]
[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Signed [/FONT]



[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Date [/FONT]
15th July 2008


[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Please specify whether: [/FONT][FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]landlord [/FONT] [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]licensor [/FONT] [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]joint landlords [/FONT] [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]landlord's agent [/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Name(s) (Block Capitals) [/FONT]


Mr M


[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Address[/FONT]





[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Telephone -[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif][FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Evening 02089606737[/FONT][/FONT]





[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]What to do if this notice is served on you[/FONT]

• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]This notice is the first step requiring you to give up possession of your home. You should read it very carefully.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Your landlord cannot make you leave your home without an order for possession issued by a court. By issuing this notice your landlord is informing you that he intends to seek such an order. If you are willing to give up possession without a court order, you should tell the person who signed this notice as soon as possible and say when you are prepared to leave.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]Whichever grounds are set out in section 3 of this form, the court may allow any of the other grounds to be added at a later date. If this is done, you will be told about it so you can discuss the additional grounds at the court hearing as well as the grounds set out in section 3.[/FONT]
• [FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]If you need advice about this notice, and what you should do about it, take it immediately to a citizens' advice bureau, a housing advice centre, a law centre or a solicitor.[/FONT]

house184

Hrm the wording of the ground 8 is the pre 1996 wording. It's only two months rent unpaid if rent is paid monthly and 8 weeks if rent is paid weekly.

As far as ground 8, the mandatory ground, I think that you are doomed as if the Judge dispenses with the need for a notice you can't make the ground out.

I'd go see a solicitor now and see what they advise you in regards to arguing that it is 'just and equitable' to dispense with the requirements of a notice in arguing that possession should be granted under grounds 10 and 11. I've seen cases where 8 hasn't been made out but the LL has been granted possession on grounds 10 and 11 with far less arreears than your tenant.

Sadly because of the mistakes you made it's not guareenteed.

In the meantime i'd serve a new section 8 notice on grounds 8, 10, 11 (get proof of service to) and a section 21 (1b if fixed term 4a if periodic tenancy)

meester

mickymellon wrote: »

[FONT=Frutiger LT Std 45 Light, sans-serif]...[/FONT]

You're not allowed links in your signature. Suggest you remove it.

clutton_2

OP says - ""due to me being away and having a crap bank (Abbey), I had not seen or been sent bank statements monthly so got a shock when I saw my tenant wasn't paying.""

i'm sorry to be blunt here - but - you were abroad - but could not set up any form of internet banking so that you could find out what was going on ???

from reading this thread - my impression is that you were a newbie landlord, had not done enough research, got caught by a clever tenant who knew tenants rights and now want to blame others .....

either bite the bullet and pay a specialist law firm who evict folks, or, take another risk, and join national landlords association and try to do the legal paperwork yourself - but bearing in mind the current dogs dinner you have made of things yourself - i would pay a solicitor and use a good letting agent next time

Microstar_2

I agree the OP has let things slide and bungled it a bit (NOI). I don't think the tenant has been particularly 'clever', just not paid the rent and then got some accurate free advice.
It is not difficult to deal with these situations, but you do have to keep on top of the business and stick to the rules and regs.

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

...from reading this thread - my impression is that you were a newbie landlord, had not done enough research, got caught by a clever tenant who knew tenants rights and now want to blame others .....

Micky - yes, all of us can have sympathy for either party to a contract when one fails to keep to their terms however, as you'll have learnt by the end of all of this, you cannot afford to"play" at letting property.

I hope that you complied with your LL obligations on things like gas safety and registering the Tenant's deposit as required by law, or that your father did on your behalf?

You mention LL insurance, or lack of - you're lucky that your tenant hasn't yet made a claim against you for which you have no proper cover.

You've got a tenancy agreement there that contains some terms that are likely to be classed as unfair terms - did you download it from the 'net or cut and paste?

In one of your links you write to the tenant's representative saying that the tenant may cause you to lose the house - nope- sorry - if you lose it, it is down to you not making adequate preparation. If you are letting property out you have to allow for the fact that you may have voids or periods of non-payment of rent and be able to cover you mortgage from a contingency fund.

You won't want to hear this, but you are clearly out of your depth here - for goodness sake take Clutton's suggestion on board & get a qualified LL & T lawyer

clutton wrote: »

.... bearing in mind the current dogs dinner you have made of things yourself - i would pay a solicitor and use a good letting agent next time

Absolutely first rate advice there Clutton