Interpretation of wording requested

Milarky

From our old friend

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/isa/isa-guidance-notes-2008.pdf

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Transfer Application forms[/FONT]

“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]11.1a Investors must make a Transfer Application to the new manager when requesting a[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]transfer. This can be achieved by using a combined form which both instructs the transfer to[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]take place and is also an application to subscribe... ISA managers should produce their own forms
[.i.e. If they wish to use a form?] which should use the wording in the specimen forms. In cases
where no subscription is to be made following the transfer, certain parts of the form can be deleted.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]However: “Suggested ‘Best Practice’[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]11.15a Appendix B contains guidance on best practice for ISA transfers. However, while[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]we recommend that managers adopt these procedures, they are recommendations[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]only and are not prescriptive.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Appendix B ISA transfers – suggested ‘best practice’ 04/2008 177[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]We recommend that managers adopt the procedures below, but they are recommendations only[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]and are not prescriptive.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Scenario 1 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]- Where investor approaches potential new manager with request to arrange a[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]transfer:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]1. New manager asks the investor to confirm the request in writing and to complete an ISA[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]transfer application form[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]From 6 April 2008 investors are required to complete a transfer application (paragraph 11.1a).[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Sample forms are at paragraphs 11.34 and 11.35.[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]”[/FONT][/FONT]

In particular, if the procedure is 'not proscriptive' (for the ISA providers?) in what sense must investors be "required to complete a transfer application" of the proforma variety - and not simply issue a written instruction in sufficient detail upon a transfer? I'm getting grief from the West Brom about it - and I suppose they're reading the same notes I am - yet Leek United, for instance, have just had money sent to them - and all I did there was provide an application form (to open) plus covering letter with transfer inscructions

It would be useful if this controversy could be hammered out wouldn't it?

Ta

cheerfulcat

Hi, Milarky,

Looking through chapter 4 of this great tome, I see that HMRC say

4.3 Applications can be made in writing, electronically or by telephone.

Later -

4.9 Applications in writing must be made on an application form. ISA managers should produce their own application forms. These must contain the information, declaration and authority set out below. We recommend that managers use the wording in the specimen application forms at paragraphs 4.38 – 4.39.

4.10 Applications in writing include faxes of signed application forms, and e-mail applications with electronic signatures. Electronic signatures are defined in the Electronic Communications Act 2000.

And -

4.18 Where an application is made other than in writing; for example, by telephone, unsigned e-mail or fax, or orally, the investor is required to provide the same information, make the same declaration and provide the same authority and other information in paragraphs 4.13 – 4.16 in their application.

This would suggest to me that HMRC - or at least, that portion of it which dreamt up this load of illiterate cobblers - have their own interpretation of what " in writing " means and I assume that rather than try to guess what that is, the West Brom are taking the easy ( to them ) way out. Leek United perhaps are that little bit braver?

isasmurf

Well, I've read the full chapter and I think this part is the most relevant

11.20 All transfers made after 5 April 2008, require the investor to make a ‘Transfer Application’ to the new manager before the transfer can take place. Sample Transfer Application forms are at paragraphs 11.34 and 11.35.

Transfer Applications are modified application forms and may therefore be made in writing, electronically, or by telephone (see paragraph 4.3).

So I read that as meaning your instructions to transfer must be on the application form - with the necessary parts of the declaration deleted if you are not going to subscribe to this ISA.

The suggested best practice is just that - suggested.

Milarky

Paragraph 4.3 helpfully says: "See 'recursion'"

..no it doesn't, really it says: "4.3 Applications can be made in writing, electronically or by telephone."

"Transfer Applications are modified application forms" What though is this supposed to mean? 'modified' by whom - only an ISA provider?

But I'm still wondering where this 'requirement' to make an 'transfer application' really comes from? New ISA Regulations for 2008? Why doesn't it cite any Regulation in that case? Where are the "[citation required]" tags?

NB Appendix A is a 'Cross Reference of ISA Regulations'. When I look there, '11.20' is not cross referenced...