How I got upgraded to First Class on train

chopandchange

This will not apply to all journeys, but I just thought I would share with you how myself and some other passengers upgraded to First Class for free on a train recently.

Basically if your train is overcrowded (mine was, due to another train being cancelled) and you can't get a seat, go and check if there are any free seats in First Class, find a steward and point out the free seats to him and politely ask him or her if you (and the other poor passengers currently sitting on the floor) can go and sit there.

I did this recently and the steward first refused (equally politely) saying he had to have respect for the people in First Class who had actually paid for their superior tickets. However, he then went and checked with the driver and emerged from the front to announce he was after all "declassifying" that area of the train and we could go and sit there if we wanted at no extra cost!

Idiophreak

So was the whole carriage empty? Were the first class people sat their moved to another carriage?

I've tried this *plenty* of times when I've been forced to stand. The only time you're ever gonna get anywhere is when something goes wrong...In your case, the other train being cancelled will have helped - I've also found the same if the air con goes out...but under normal conditions I very much doubt they'll ever let you sit there...

anewman

Standard class isn't known as poverty class for nothing Just remember what happened on the Titanic.

Altarf

chopandchange wrote: »

I did this recently and the steward first refused (equally politely) saying he had to have respect for the people in First Class who had actually paid for their superior tickets.

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage, condition 39 says the following -

Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class accommodation is available, and ticket staff on that train give their permission, then you may travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra charge.

On-train ticket staff will not give you permission to use first class accommodation or the equivalent) unless they are satisfied that it is not required by anyone with a first class ticket and the standard class accommodation on the train is full. This permission may be withdrawn if a person holding a first class ticket requires the accommodation during your journey or standard class accommodation becomes available.

My reading of condition 39 is that you should only expect permission to be withheld if there are seats in standard class or the seat is required by a first class ticket holder. The price difference is not a valid reason. If I was refused on this pretext, I would take their details and make a complaint.

robt_2

Altarf wrote: »

My reading of condition 39 is that you should only expect permission to be withheld if there are seats in standard class or the seat is required by a first class ticket holder. The price difference is not a valid reason. If I was refused on this pretext, I would take their details and make a complaint.

I think you have read it totally wrong - at no point are seats mentioned, other than by yourself. I'm sure you already know - but a train ticket is for travel, not for a seat whilst traveling.

sarah_elton

Do you know what really annoys me?

When I pay for first class when I do London to Liverpool, then they declassify the train due to overcrowding in standard and everyone comes and sits with me for free. :mad: Why don't I get offered a refund of the extra I paid when that happens? Bah!

I pay good money not to have to sit with the rabble.

Let_Robinson_Sing

sarah_elton wrote: »

Do you know what really annoys me?

When I pay for first class when I do London to Liverpool, then they declassify the train due to overcrowding in standard and everyone comes and sits with me for free. :mad: Why don't I get offered a refund of the extra I paid when that happens? Bah!

I pay good money not to have to sit with the rabble.

Have you ever complained in writing about it?

They might flog you off with a voucher but it's better than a kick in the crotch

sarah_elton

LOL never thought to. I wouldn't dream of complaining on the train because I'd sound like a complete t*t.

I don't actually object to unused seats getting used. I have to stand on the commute to work sometimes and couldn't do it long distance. Still, bugs me when I've paid more for the same service.

Let_Robinson_Sing

sarah_elton wrote: »

LOL never thought to. I wouldn't dream of complaining on the train because I'd sound like a complete t*t.

I don't actually object to unused seats getting used. I have to stand on the commute to work sometimes and couldn't do it long distance. Still, bugs me when I've paid more for the same service.

That's the joys of travelling on the trains though. I've had numerous journeys on our trains were i've had a seat booked but not managed to get to the seat because of just simply too many people on the train :rolleyes:

mad_rich

Altarf wrote: »

My reading of condition 39 is that you should only expect permission to be withheld if there are seats in standard class or the seat is required by a first class ticket holder.

I wouldn't be so sure. Nowhere does it say that those are the only circumstances in which you would be refused; it just says that you definitely would be refused in those circumstances.

That said, I would have thought that if the guard said "no", they would have to give a good reason. And that reason would have to be as reasonable (still with me? ) as the two reasons given in the example above (which are, after all very reasonable indeed). Simply saying "because I say you can't" isn't good enough.

robt wrote:

I think you have read it totally wrong - at no point are seats mentioned, other than by yourself.

Seats aren't mentioned, but it does say "and the standard class accommodation on the train is full". It's a matter for debate as to whether, with all seats taken and there being standing room only, standard accommodation could be said to be full. I'd be happy to argue all day that it was .

Idiophreak

mad_rich wrote: »

Seats aren't mentioned, but it does say "and the standard class accommodation on the train is full". It's a matter for debate as to whether, with all seats taken and there being standing room only, standard accommodation could be said to be full. I'd be happy to argue all day that it was .

I don't think the train companies see it that way...I've been on trains where they've refused to let people onto standard class whilst first class was mainly empty...people stood all down the walkways, about 20 people in each vestibule...Again, an instance where both the criteria in "condition 39" were met, but who knows what motivates the ticket-nazis sometimes