how do you live off student loans if it all goes on rent

Bennifred · 30 August 2008 at 9:38PM

:wall: We could have weeks more of this_pale_ especially as Oxbridge go back ages after the "plebs", lol!

durhampoker99 · 30 August 2008 at 9:56PM

The_One_Who wrote: »

Why should an employer care where you got your undergrad as long as they think you're able to perform at a satisfactory level?

I don't know, ask them? I'll go by personal experience and tell you that they do, massively. See top investment banks, top consultancy firms and magic circle law firms.

Two possible reasons...neither of which you'll like:
1) They think Oxbridge prepares you better for their line of work than elsewhere (also reflected - maybe to a lesser extent - in admissions for Masters courses at Oxford).
2) The most intelligent people go to Oxbridge, so it's inevitable that they end up in the best jobs. Generalisation but true, the average Oxford student is more intelligent than the average Teeside student, yes?

Maybe a combination of both...

They have as much chance as the next person as long as they have reached the required grade and have a good personal statement, proposal and references. Work experience is good but that really depends on the course.

Your point seems to be that their education isn't as good. I'm sure they will learn more than just academic skills that can help the students. I personally know someone who went from Brookes to Oxford so it can be done.

I never said it "couldn't". The number of times you've seemed to put that into my mouth is extraordinary.

We could have weeks more of this_pale_ especially as Oxbridge go back ages after the "plebs", lol!

True, but I'm going back to Oxford mid-Sept (start mid-Oct) because it's the most beautiful place in the world and I want to spend as much time there as an undergrad as I can. So no need to worry about that!

The_One_Who · 30 August 2008 at 10:15PM

I don't know, ask them? I'll go by personal experience and tell you that they do, massively. See top investment banks, top consultancy firms and magic circle law firms.

Two possible reasons...neither of which you'll like:
1) They think Oxbridge prepares you better for their line of work than elsewhere (also reflected - maybe to a lesser extent - in admissions for Masters courses at Oxford).
2) The most intelligent people go to Oxbridge, so it's inevitable that they end up in the best jobs. Generalisation but true, the average Oxford student is more intelligent than the average Teeside student, yes?

Maybe a combination of both...

It is well known that IB and magic circle law firms like their Oxbridge graduates, but their employees constitute how much of the total graduate workforce? I'm willing to bet that it's not much.

Again, you are implying that you are more intelligent than those who don't go to Oxbridge, which is simply not true. They end up in the best jobs? I suppose that depends on how you are defining the "best" job. I couldn't imagine a worse job than IB.

An Oxford student might be (in general) more academically intelligent but being good at writing essays and doing lots of reading isn't what makes a good employee.

durhampoker99 · 30 August 2008 at 10:45PM

The_One_Who wrote: »

It is well known that IB and magic circle law firms like their Oxbridge graduates, but their employees constitute how much of the total graduate workforce? I'm willing to bet that it's not much.

Probably not much...but then those jobs have the highest application:places ratio of any. Not sure what that point is trying to prove, Oxbridge grads don't constitute much of the graduate workforce either.

Again, you are implying that you are more intelligent than those who don't go to Oxbridge, which is simply not true. They end up in the best jobs? I suppose that depends on how you are defining the "best" job. I couldn't imagine a worse job than IB.

Same, I couldn't do IB. By "best" I mean best most heavily applied to, so as judged by grads really. Not, admittedly, the ideal jobs for everyone. I would say that Oxbridge grads probably have a better shots at most jobs though...all other things both being equal.

An Oxford student might be (in general) more academically intelligent but being good at writing essays and doing lots of reading isn't what makes a good employee.

Please, even through gritted teeth, just admit that Oxbridge undergrads are the generally most intelligent without qualifying it in some way. It's making your entire argument look silly the longer you don't, there are plenty of reasons why graduate recruitment might be seen as unfair - because of a lack of intelligence from Oxbridge grads is not one of them.

Being able to write a good essay is a brilliant indicator of how good an employee one is likely to be. It means you can clearly articulate a point of view, can throughly research and can work to a deadline (especially at Oxford - the longest I ever have for an essay is a week between 2). Combined with a verbal interview I can't think of many better indicators!? Any ideas?

DurhamPoker99

moneymass · 30 August 2008 at 11:01PM

I see the server downtime didn't calm anyone down.

Both sides of the (offtopic) argument have had honkers in them to be honest, but at least it was entertaining.

Bennifred · 30 August 2008 at 11:09PM

I know I'm going to regret this:rolleyes: but.......

There are probably some seriously intelligent undergrads out there who aren't at Oxbridge because THEY LIKE OTHER PLACES MORE (whoops sorry - shouldn't shout!) or just possibly they want to study something that Oxbridge doesn't offer. *sigh*

dp99, the more you post the more naive and arrogant you appear! And you don't seem to have the intelligence to understand why your posts may be offensive......

No! No! No! I will not get drawn into this. Maybe when you have grown up and have got a bit of life experience, you'll get it. Good luck!

durhampoker99 · 30 August 2008 at 11:28PM

There are probably some seriously intelligent undergrads out there who aren't at Oxbridge because THEY LIKE OTHER PLACES MORE (whoops sorry - shouldn't shout!) or just possibly they want to study something that Oxbridge doesn't offer. *sigh*

Oh no, I completely agree. Oxbridge isn't right for everyone. Most of my comments have been directed towards the hypothetical Teeside student. Now if you're telling me that he'd rather be at Teeside than anywhere else...you're really not being realistic.

People who choose the likes of London, Durham, Edinburgh over Oxbridge is one thing. For those who choose proper 2nd division unis (the polytechnics) you really have to start questioning why as an employer. If they didn't see the attraction of the higher workload of Oxbridge and strong attitude towards work (as was the case for some of my able friends who didn't apply) then is that really the person who you want working for your company. When you get an Oxbridge grad you are getting somebody who has definitely experienced hard work and tight deadlines throughout a 3 or 4 year course. I know for a FACT that this is simply not the case at other places I've named.

Can Kellogg etc really claim to have HAD to work as much as they did to get a 2.1 or better at the uni they attended? Sure everyone should WANT to put in that extra effort, but employers know that not all do and by taking somebody from Oxbridge you know that they have at least been through that.

I'm just trying to answer the question of why employers favour Oxbridge...one that has been posed to me in a number of different guises. Maybe Bennifred or another can do better in explaining. However I'm likely to try is going to come across as arrogant because I happen to attend Oxford, and know people who work in these jobs did too. Don't confuse personal experience with arrogance.

The_One_Who · 31 August 2008 at 9:41AM

Please, even through gritted teeth, just admit that Oxbridge undergrads are the generally most intelligent without qualifying it in some way. It's making your entire argument look silly the longer you don't, there are plenty of reasons why graduate recruitment might be seen as unfair - because of a lack of intelligence from Oxbridge grads is not one of them.

Er, no. Because it's not true. You are making your entire argument look arrogant and naive the longer you say otherwise.

I think you are going to get a bit of a shock when it comes to graduate recruitment, unless you go into the City. You are going to have to go through the exact same process as a Teeside graduate, and with your attitude I would employ the one from Teeside. The City is populated by people who seem to live in their own little bubble, completely disengaged from reality.

The reason for the City being the haven for Oxbridge graduates is more to do with tradition and old-boys networks than any superiority of the students.