High Gas Usage?

Cardew

moneysavingplumber wrote:

If it is giving a reading way over that, and yet a recent combustion check confirmed efficient combustion then the meter would be more suspect and would warrant further investigation. However, in that situation, it would be advisable to have a Corgi engineer check the burner pressure at the appliance first and seeing if it ties in with the gas rate check.

MSP

I did ask a BG fitter 'off the record' how many meters, giving incorrect readings, he had seen.

He said it was quite common some years ago. However every case was where they had been tampered with to give a low reading - it apparently was possible with the old style meters.

He had never dealt with a meter that gave a high reading.

How does that compare with your experience?

njm_2

My meter has a dial like the old petrol pumps, where numbers rotate on the outside of a wheel and appear in the reading box. I shall have to work out when I can read it from cold but I think timing for two minutes is probably the correct method. I shall report back…

njm_2

Firstly: I fired up my boiler from cold and took meter readings over a two minute period (twice – just to be on the safe side) and this shows a usage of 0.074m3

The actual readings were 9791.430 – 9791.504 & 9791.535 – 9791.608

I would be very grateful if MSPlumber, or anyone else with the expertise, could do the requisite maths to calculate my gas rate in KW/h of my boiler, according to my meter

Thanks to a post by “paul_h” on another gas thread, "Help - Dispute with Powergen over incorrect meter readings", I have been able to obtain all the actual readings taken by Siemens since we moved in 18 months ago, even though Siemens have no record of our property on their system! Powergen rejected them all as there was one obvious error reading, but now I can decipher my apparent gas usage with far greater accuracy.

I had already contacted Powergen this morning – had hoped to go fully armed with all the facts – and was able to obtain my last three meter readings and confirm that they had complied with the GAS SUPPLIERS LICENCE. After an interesting chat I have agreed to get back to them once I have had a chance to look at the figures and hopefully confirm if my boiler/meter/heating system or cold family is at fault! Probably not the last one as since I started looking into this I have found myself opening the fridge to stay warm!

moneysavingplumber

I pmed it to you as well, heat INPUT of approx. 80,000 btu confirming OUTPUT of approx. 70,000, suggesting the meter is probably accurate if the combustion has been analysed as efficient as well. The heat has to be going somewhere, so as well as having the system investigated for sludge and poor balance etc, look here for grants for insulation etc in your area.

http://www.est.org.uk/myhome/gid/

Cardew

njm & MSP,
Interesting thread here.

Does not an input of 80,000btu and output of 70,000btu suggest an efficiency of 87.5%? or is that too simplistic? If so that is much higher figure than quoted earlier.

moneysavingplumber

I'm only giving approximates, it looks correct to me. There are variables and tolerances in the boiler settings, burner pressures usually have a minimum and maximum setting which will slightly adjust the heat input within tolerable boundaries usually given on the boiler data badge. An input of 80000 at 79% efficiency would effectively mean an immediate output of 63200 which would likely be at the lower end of the variable setting of the boiler's burner pressure. Having this professionally adjusted upwards would increase the output and input and the gas usage but may make negligible difference in terms of warmth if the system has other problems and the house is so poorly insulated.

njm_2

MSPlummer - thank you for the calculations, your help has been invaluable.

I was in contact with EST today – must have been ESP at work – and as we met the criteria we should be hearing from a surveyor within the next six weeks and hopefully will be able to get a grant towards insulation and heating improvements. EST runs the Warm Front Grant system for the Government. They did state that it can take up to 3 months to get a grant authorised and a further three months to get the work done. They also suggested we contact the Energy Advice Line who would look into local and regional grants or discounted schemes that may be available to us from all sources. Energy Advice Line
will be sending out their own appointed surveyor within three weeks and they will then advise which grants or discounted schemes we would be eligible to apply for. They did state that the Government system is very slow, but that they normally completed most insulation improvements within 6 weeks – I think they are government and local council aided organisation.

EST – Energy Saving Trust – Helpline 0800 915 7722
http://www.est.org.uk/myhome/gid/

Energy Advice Line – 0800 512 012
http://www.solihull.gov.uk/wwwhsg/energyefficiency.htm

Having now obtained the actual meter readings (rejected by Powergen) it would appear, at first glance, that on average we use 3 m3 (34kWH) per day during the summer (mostly no central heating) and 9 m3 (101kWH) per day during the winter. Unfortunately there are no meter readings for a 10 month period so the calculations assume similar usage between this summer and last year. Our daily readings confirm that when the heating is on all day, and hot water for an hour each morning and two in the evening, we use about 9 m3 of gas. I must find a thermometer because our rooms are rarely warm.

Something that hasn’t been mention thus far is that our thermostats couldn’t be in a worse place; the upstairs one is in a bedroom next to the airing cupboard and the downstairs is squashed between the boiler cupboard and the back door. There must be much better places to have these located, but I think our solid walls meant the easy option was taken.

squiggles

After reading this thread on monday i checked my gas meter and just checked it again and ive used 7 units in total.Heating only on about 3 hours per day at the moment and i also cook with gas.

moneysavingplumber

No worries, happy to help, more people knowing this kind of stuff actually makes a good plumber's job easier. Good luck.

Dave.

moneysavingplumber

njm wrote:

Something that hasn’t been mention thus far is that our thermostats couldn’t be in a worse place; the upstairs one is in a bedroom next to the airing cupboard and the downstairs is squashed between the boiler cupboard and the back door. There must be much better places to have these located, but I think our solid walls meant the easy option was taken.

The fact that your central heating appears to be zoned would suggest that efficiency was considered when the heating was designed.

They are not in good positions, they should be somewhere that reflects the average temperature of the house and somewhere that they don't stick out like a sore thumb. I tend to recommend the use of wireless stats now (Drayton RF1/2/ or 3), they are more expensive but what you lose on the cost of the unit you save on the wiring, and the siting of them is much more flexible.

However, the position of your thermostats might, in theory, appear to explain the coldness of your house, both being located in 'hot spots', but they wouldn't explain the high gas usage. I would guess it's a mixture of this and all of the other aforementioned problems that is to blame for that.