Denial to Acceptance on MSE

trulysaintly

mr.broderick wrote: »

I was flicking through all the threads on this and our sister board this afternoon. There is a worryingly lack of news about prices dropping at the moment. We have to be careful the media has to constantly report on this and to drill home that now is not a good time to buy, we are a very stange nation and perceive no news to be good news. I fear prices are going to rise very soon and i will still be here (some may like that some may not) to say ....."I told you so"

I'm with you on this, many who post on here just like to pretend that they are experts without actually stating where their experience comes from in order to make their 'views of the future'.

Most of it is based on a sheep mentality of following the majority - yes I have an increased interest in the situation because of my occupation, but I can also see through all the rubbish spouted by so called 'media experts' - these journos tend to have a limited understanding of the processes of the market and unfortunately, many people hang on their every word.

To sum it all up, especially on here, 'everyone's an expert with a crystal ball'.

I just wish people would make their own decisions rather than follow some misguided opinion...THAT'S why the property market is in meltdown, public confidence.

The public have no confidence in property because all they are told is that prices will continue to fall - regardless of the fact that this only matters if you are looking to sell again in 12-18 months....and how many people do that?? :mad:

dopester

trulysaintly wrote: »

THAT'S why the property market is in meltdown, public confidence.

That is a factor, but the actual cause is much deeper and more complicated.

Property is vastly over-valued. The paradigm has been smashed when it finally broke the limits of economic insanity.

carolt

trulysaintly wrote: »

I'm with you on this, many who post on here just like to pretend that they are experts without actually stating where their experience comes from in order to make their 'views of the future'.

Most of it is based on a sheep mentality of following the majority - yes I have an increased interest in the situation because of my occupation, but I can also see through all the rubbish spouted by so called 'media experts' - these journos tend to have a limited understanding of the processes of the market and unfortunately, many people hang on their every word.

To sum it all up, especially on here, 'everyone's an expert with a crystal ball'.

I just wish people would make their own decisions rather than follow some misguided opinion...THAT'S why the property market is in meltdown, public confidence.

The public have no confidence in property because all they are told is that prices will continue to fall - regardless of the fact that this only matters if you are looking to sell again in 12-18 months....and how many people do that?? :mad:

Nonsense - it matters to me as a would-be FTB hugely if prices fall or not; it has an enormous impact on my future quality of life whether I take on a debt of, for argument's sake, £200,000 or £300,000. Factor in the extra interest to be repaid as well as the capital itself, and I fail to see how you can say 'it doesn't matter'.

It matters very much to me. It's the difference between never seeing my children because I have to work all hours, not sleeping at night for worrying about how I'm going to pay it off, never being able to afford a holiday or any luxuries.

It is far from an academic distinction to me and hundreds of thousands if not millions like me, and I don't see what gives you the right to tell me it isn't. :mad:

I'd love to know on what evidence you base your view that all the journos are wrong, whilst you, amazingly, are right......

trulysaintly

dopester wrote: »

That is a factor, but the actual cause is much deeper and more complicated.

Property is vastly over-valued. The paradigm has been smashed when it finally broke the limits of economic insanity.

Except the B2Let landlords will be returning to the market shortly to snap up properties at the current low prices, which could then satisfy the needs of the rental community...rental prices are in fact increasing due to demand.

The B2Let owners who think they will make money quickly are not the real investors - they are 'hobby' investors who have jumped on the bandwagon.

The REAL investors buy properties when the market is stalled - therefore what do you think this will do to property prices in the medium term? Still think that they are going to continue to fall????

Does that fit into your little chart anywhere?

carolt

Er, no.

See lengthy thread here on falling rental prices:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1070595

Any landlord who wants to buy into that and increase rental pool further, so reducing prices further, is more than welcome, as far as I'm concerned.

trulysaintly

carolt wrote: »

Nonsense - it matters to me as a would-be FTB hugely if prices fall or not; it has an enormous impact on my future quality of life whether I take on a debt of, for argument's sake, £200,000 or £300,000. Factor in the extra interest to be repaid as well as the capital itself, and I fail to see how you can say 'it doesn't matter'.

It matters very much to me. It's the difference between never seeing my children because I have to work all hours, not sleeping at night for worrying about how I'm going to pay it off, never being able to afford a holiday or any luxuries.

It is far from an academic distinction to me and hundreds of thousands if not millions like me, and I don't see what gives you the right to tell me it isn't. :mad:

I'd love to know on what evidence you base your view that all the journos are wrong, whilst you, amazingly, are right......

Well if those are your concerns, you are not alone. That doesn't however give you the right to conclude that property prices will continue to fall - it's all hearsay at the moment.

What you are getting hot under the collar about are 'life choices' - it's your choice if you buy a property, your choice to work if you have that option, your choice if you choose to move home.

However, if this is to be a 'home for the future' and you are not planning to move again for, say three years, what issue would you then have if values dropped by 10% anyway in the next 12 months if you're not looking to move?

Negative Equity is only a REAL issue for you if you want to move - if you are planning on staying put for a decent length of time, this market is going to recover and what's the problem.

Expecting the market to drop 30-40% just because it suits you doesn't make it realistic.

Lenders will not go back to a model of 3x income for mortgages because wages haven't kept up with house price inflation - that is why they brought in Affordability Calculations instead, to allow them to offer mortgages that were affordable, with evidence shown.

Don't have a go at me just because my opinion is different - I have dealt with mortgages and the housing market day in, day out for the last 13 years so I happen to think that I can give my views from an informed viewpoint - many journos are lazy and look for soundbites that suit - bad news sells papers after all.

Dithering_Dad

carolt wrote: »

Nonsense - it matters to me as a would-be FTB hugely if prices fall or not; it has an enormous impact on my future quality of life whether I take on a debt of, for argument's sake, £200,000 or £300,000. Factor in the extra interest to be repaid as well as the capital itself, and I fail to see how you can say 'it doesn't matter'.

It matters very much to me. It's the difference between never seeing my children because I have to work all hours, not sleeping at night for worrying about how I'm going to pay it off, never being able to afford a holiday or any luxuries.

It is far from an academic distinction to me and hundreds of thousands if not millions like me, and I don't see what gives you the right to tell me it isn't. :mad:

I'd love to know on what evidence you base your view that all the journos are wrong, whilst you, amazingly, are right......

Oh lord, off she goes again! :rolleyes:

It's amusing to watch carol work herself up into a lather over a statement that she has twisted from its original meaning.

Keep taking the tablets dear.

dopester

trulysaintly wrote: »

Except the B2Let landlords will be returning to the market shortly to snap up properties at the current low prices, which could then satisfy the needs of the rental community...rental prices are in fact increasing due to demand.

Get a grip.

Use Property-Bee with Rightmove. Check almost any area in England. You can see landlords cutting prices left-right-centre in order to get tenants. There is every more and more oversupply, increased competition to get tenants, forcing prices down.

trulysaintly

dopester wrote: »

Get a grip.

Use Property-Bee with Rightmove. Check almost any area in England. You can see landlords cutting prices left-right-centre in order to get tenants. There is every more and more oversupply, increased competition to get tenants, forcing prices down.

Stop for a moment and consider what I have said previously.

There are two types of Buy to Let Investor.

Hobby and Professional.

Hobby's are the ones with larger mortgages on these properties, probably coming now to the end of two year deals when their interest rates are increasing, on average by 1%.

The Hobby B2L individual, as they did it because their best friend and the Daily Mail said so, took out an 85% mortgage based on the rental income recieved.

Now, two years on, the payments have gone up, and Hobby has got their own residential mortgage to pay as well.

FTB's are not in the market to buy, so they want to rent. As there are lots of Hobby's out there, competition is currently driving prices down.

Hobby, having two mortgages and one income, cannot afford to maintain both.

Professional Investor meanwhile, waits for Hobby to default, and snaps up the property for his portfolio. Also, as Prof is seeing many Hobby's diving out of the market, snaps up more at a lower price.

Professional buying more B2L property gets the market moving by letting some of the Hobby's to trade upwards on their residential property, therefore kickstarting the whole process.

See?

trulysaintly

An alternative view on the future....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1041334/Now-experts-tell-homeowners-STOP-worrying-prices-rise-30.html

Now, I have categorically stated in all my posts that the press and media have a lot to answer for.

Read this and then tell me I'm wrong.