Father_in_law going into care home 117 funded

soolin

Fin1 wrote: »

JohnnieW
Soolin's dad is in a care home with nursing which does get paid for by either social services or individuals (including £101 Registered nursing care contribution) Just because he needs nursing does not mean that he is being funded by continuing health care. Sad to say, I work within an authority where clients with dementia who are assessed as needing CHC are moved.

Dad is not in a nursing home he is in a registered dementia residential home. There are no qualified nursing staff, just care workers who wash and care for dad. If he requires any medical attention (as he does at the moment due to a rather worrying huge lump suddenly appearing on his arm) then they call in a district nurse or a GP from dad's GP practice.

Half my problems have been that whenever Dad is ill I take over and liaise with hospitals and arrange treatment and transport and such like. I am terrified that one day dad will get to the stage where the home will no longer keep him as once he requires any form of nursing assistance he will be ineligible to remain wher ehe is so happy. Obviously if dad ever does end up in a nursing home, and I pray he remains well enough to stay where he is, then my life will actually be simpler as they will look after him medically as well.

Anyway, I am so sorry to have hijacked this thread..I will go now and carry on reading the other threads with regard to care home fees. Incidetally dad does have savings and I am not trying to keep those for myself for the future, if dad needs care he gets it regardless of cost. However, if I am using dad's money to pay for something that should be funded elsewhere then I am failing in my duty to care for him overall..as it is not my money to waste and we need to assume dad will go on for a good few years.

JuneBow

Sorry to stevew48 for hijacking the thread, but just wanted to say to Soolin, that my friend's mother has vascular dementia. Her accountant was dealing with her financial affairs and told my friend that she was likely to be eligible for NHS continuing care. The accountant knew a fair bit about the system and offered to do the work fighting for it on a no win no fee basis. Anyway, the fight was sucessful, and mum got the money she had paid in fees back. Nearly £100k as she had been in the home for some years. I do think fighting is easier when there are professionals involved on your side.
My friend was delighted as they thought the money was going to run out. Mum was not moved.
If you want me to PM the phone number of the accountant, send me a PM, just so you can have a chat if you want.
You are perfectly right in that you are failing in your duty if you do not claim what is rightly his.
If you didn't claim AA for him you would feel bad!
Best of luck.

monkeyspanner

Soolin
Please do not be put off looking at CHc funding. This funding is available for patients in any care setting subject to assessment that the patients care needs are primarily health.

My MIL has just been awarded CHc funding after 12 months of trying to obtain information, assessments and appeals. The worst aspect of this process is the incorrect information and ill informed attitude that is prevalent within the relavant departments particularly the Local councils Social Services department.

The PCT's have been allocated funds for CHc funding but would prefer to spend this money on other areas so will try to block your enquiries at every stage. My MIL's PCT has a financial reserve of in excess of £3million put aside as a provision against outstanding CHc funding appeals.

I have posted on this subject a number of times if you would care to look at my past posts and if there are any specific questions you would like answered please feel free to PM me, I will do my best to provide an answer.

L-J-R

Good luck to Soolin and anyone else contemplating looking for CHC funding. My mum, 95, has been in an EMI home for three years. She has severe dementia - she has no cognition, has no speech, has very limited mobility - can sometimes stand with assistance, is doubly incontinent but has been deemed ineligible for CHC funding, the powers that be claiming her needs are social, not medical. The fact that they emanate from a medical cause and that if they were not met, she would quickly become a severe medical case, taking up a hosptal bed, seems to be beyond their comprehension.

localhero

I think the most sensible course of action would be to keep the assets out of the father in law's estate in the first place, rather than incur fees paying lawyers to fight over it later.

The local authorities are notorious for demanding individuals to fund their care when it ought to be supplied free, and as Fin said, whilst the FIL may be entitled to continuing health care now, there is every possibility things could change in the future after a 'reassessment'.

If he doesn't have the proceeds of a house sitting in his estate, then the argument over who pays will be limited to what savings he currently has.

The mother in law should most definitely make a new Will at her earliest opportunity. A discretionary trust would work, provided the joint tenancy was also changed to tenants in common.

EdInvestor

localhero wrote: »

The local authorities are notorious for demanding individuals to fund their care when it ought to be supplied free, and as Fin said, whilst the FIL may be entitled to continuing health care now, there is every possibility things could change in the future after a 'reassessment'.

AFAIK as he has been sectioned under the Mental Health Act he will always be entitled to NHS continuing care and the LA will not be involved.

http://www.dementiaweb.org.uk/mental-health-act.html

Suggest you check with the Alzheimers Society and perhaps Age Concern that this is the case.

localhero

EdInvestor wrote:

AFAIK as he has been sectioned under the Mental Health Act he will always be entitled to NHS continuing care and the LA will not be involved.

People get sectioned all the time, but being sectioned doesn't mean your circumstances won't change.

This thread is going off on a tangent, but my advice to the OP stays the same. The mother in law should make a new Will.

EdInvestor

soolin wrote: »

However, if I am using dad's money to pay for something that should be funded elsewhere then I am failing in my duty to care for him overall..as it is not my money to waste and we need to assume dad will go on for a good few years.

Here's some pretty comprehensive background about the issue of Continuing Care for dementia patients and the struggle to get the NHS to pay up.

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=200203&documentID=399

stevew48

Edinvestor and Localhero thanks for info. My FIL has been in a mental assessment hosp since march when he was sectioned (2). After 4 weeks this changed to section 3 when they diagnosed vascular dementia. He was sectioned to to his dementia but primarily his very agressive behaviour. They have eventually managed to control the agression with medication but his dementia is getting slowly worse. We have been told that he cannot go home and a residential EMI care home will be included in his 117 aftercare package. The home has been agreed with my MIL and social case worker and his case goes to funding panel on 7th Aug for rubber stamp (or so we are told). I assume when in-laws bought house in 1960 then only his name on mortgage/deeds (not to sure would have to check). If so after 50 yrs marriage is MIL considered to be joint tenant so we can change to tenants in common, and can she change to tenants in common if he is already in the care home?

Finally does he still get his state pension even though his care home will be fully funded by PCT

thanks

stevew48

localhero

Steve,

You seem to be in doubt whether the house is solely in your FIL's name. If he bought it in his sole name, he might have put it into joint ownership later with MIL.

Or he may not have done. Just because they've been together a long time won't by itself change the names on the legal title.

She will have acquired family law rights and what's known as a beneficial interest, but if FIL is the sole owner of the house, things will have got a lot more complicated.

You will need to find out from the Land Registry to see first of all A) whether the property is registered, and if so whether it was jointly owned, and C) to confirm whether or not it is as joint tenants.

Once you have established it is as joint tenants, either party can change from joint tenants to tenants in common.

The only proviso is that the other co-owner must be notified in writing. Where that person lacks capacity, then their attorney must be notified instead, if they have one. Fortunately a power of attorney is in place for FIL in your own situation.