Electrical consumer unit/fuse box

oldagetraveller

I live in a mid 1960's house which has the original wiring and consumer unit (Wylex). When the house was purchased 2 years ago an electrical survey, although generally satisfactory did highlight a couple of things. The wiring is acceptable except that the lighting circuit has no earth, just pvc flat twin cable. To bring up to present standard twin and earth is required.
The consumer unit does need changing, the existing is only 4 way, as do the cables from meter (far too small). There are three things being fed from one 30 amp fuse i.e. ring main, heating and immersion which obviously need separating with their own fuse/mcb.
Before I obtain some quotes for the job does anyone know if the electrician is going to refuse the work because of the lighting circuit non earthing? e.g. serve me with some sort of " dangerous do not use" notice?
An electrician recently ran an earth from the gas meter, commented on the fuse box and recommended it's renewal and offered to quote when I was ready, he is not aware of the non earthed lighting though.

robv_3

Having no earth in the lighting circuits is not a safely issue unless metal light switches are installed. Its quite common in houses built in the 60s (pre 68). You will find the back boxes behind the switches are wooden so these should be replaced at the same time.

Most of the time you can pull new twin and earth cables through the old conduit in the wall but you always get a coupe you need to chase out. Both chasing out the walls and replacing the back boxes is a messy jobs and will require a lot of making good. Re-wiring the downstairs lighting will also require lifting the carpets and some floor boards. The upstairs lighting is a lot easier due to the easy access from the loft.

Expect the main fuse will be 60a so tails may not be undersized. Any inspection will always compare against the latest regulations so does not mean it has to be fixed. They always answer the question 'Could it be safer' rather than 'Is it safe'. Its worth added another fuse just to stop it blowing when the immersion / ring / heater are all used at the same time.

oldagetraveller

Thanks for that robv. The size of the tails was mentioned in both the original survey and by the electrician installing the gas meter earth. What I think has happened there is that someone has fitted a 63A rcd connected to the main supply then connected both an electric shower fused supply and the supply to the consumer unit from this rcd. The terminals on the rcd are not big enough to accept correct size tails and shower supply so someone has fitted smaller tails to enable both to fit into the rcd output side!!
They recommend the shower is connected directly to a new C U to eliminate it's separate fused supply and fit larger tails to the C U.
Most of the light switches were metal! :eek: Now all plastic.
The "electricity board" main fuse is 100A, that installation and the meter look fairly new.
I was just concerned that on inspection and finding unearthed lighting there would be a sharp intake of breath and "that's not up to current(excuse the pun) standard and I can't do the work."
As you say rewiring the lights would be a messy job and I don't want the upheaval just yet.

weekendwarrior

Hi,

Just a few points to add.

You cannot have metal light fittings either as well as metal switches if there is no earth on the lighting circuit!

Are you sure that the main fuse is 100 amps as often it is a much smaller fuse such as a 60 amp in a 100 amp fuse carrier!

This job would have been far cheaper last year before part p came into force.

I'm pretty sure that you are responsible for the meter tails from the meter to the consumer unit and the Regional electricity board are responsible for the tails from the main fuse to the meter.

There is a lot of testing now if you get a NICEIC approved electrician. I am not encouraging you to break the law but of the 220,000 or so registered electricians only 20,000 or so are registered with the NICEIC, hint, hint

Cagey

My thoughts are that any electrician carrying out work on an installation has to ensure it compls with lastest regs, so I don`t think any electrician would change your fuseboard without insisting on your lighting circuit cotaining an earth wire especially now that part p applies.

oldagetraveller

Thanks for replies.
No metal light fittings in use.
Yes, the main incoming fuse is definately 100A (as labelled on the fuse cover).
Useful hint, hint weekendwarrior . Any electrician who insists on the lighting being earthed will not get the work - it's as simple as that.
If I can't get the job done without, then it stays as it is which is more dangerous than the lights not being earthed in my opinion.
I'll see what they say anyway.

weekendwarrior

Hi oldagetraveller,

I have just checked the official document for part P and it says-

work that not need be notified to the building control-

replacing the cable for a single circuit only, where damaged for example by fire, rodent or impact.


So you do not need to notify the work!

Can't see there being a problem as I know of many houses without earthed lighting circuits.


good luck

oldagetraveller

Thanks again weekendwarrior. NICEIC registered electrician did the job last Saturday (5th) morning. Now have a nice new, MUCH safer, split load consumer unit and 25 sq.mm core cables from meter. The non earthed lighting was not a problem, he just adds a disclaimer to the certificate he will issue for the work when he comes back this Friday to add a further 16A mcb. Apparently it was not necessary to advise Building Control when fitting a replacement.