Question for Ethical Vegans

guineapig

The sad fact is that pretty much everything will have been tested on animals at one time or another, the point is we have to make choices.

There is greater needless cruelty involved in being a carnivore or vegetarian and I only suggest that anyone who doesn't believe me just google "cruelty in dairy farming" and What happens to male chicks even if they are "free range"
Not that I want to get into a debate about that......( Each to their own) I am quietly living my choices, saving tons of money on food, not overweight( size 12) despite not taking much exercise:o and even having a normal cholesterol and Blood pressure despite both my parents having to take medication for both problems:p


Re the experiment with the Suma glycerine soap as "shampoo" it is still working out very well, makes my hair very soft and shiny and rinses out easily and saves on conditioner as after using this I don't need it.( For the record I do colour my hair too, so it's not like it hasn't been messed about with in the past!)

Ben84

I've used pure olive oil soap to wash my hair in the past with very good results on the hair itself, but I ended up with dandruff. It's no great surprise, I get it with a lot of shampoos too, so it's likely to be my scalp and not the soap doing it. Olive oil soap could work well for many people.

What is the exact definition of vegan for personal products and cleaning stuff. Does it have to have the vegan label, or will something that isn't animal tested and doesn't contain any animal ingredients be suitable?

guineapig

Ben84 wrote: »

What is the exact definition of vegan for personal products and cleaning stuff. Does it have to have the vegan label, or will something that isn't animal tested and doesn't contain any animal ingredients be suitable?

Well, as far as I am aware ( and the way I choose) is first look in the Animal free shoppper, ( published by The Vegan Society), look on the "is it vegan" website.
See if the product has a Vegan Society approved logo

If it is "not tested on animals" and you want to see if it is indeed ok for Vegans there is a comprehensive list of ingredients that are not Vegan, listed in the Animal free shopper, so you could do a bit of your own research if you wanted.

The basic thing is NO Animal ingredients or by products and not tested on animals.

A lot of the stuff out there for Vegans is not cheap, it is good quality and last's ok but I am on a mission;) and that's why I am always experimenting..........btw a friend of my dad's had problems with sores and such like on his scalp and tried every shampoo on the market, but nothing worked and then he tried glycerine soap on his hair and bingo! his problem cleared right up:D

guineapig

pmorrisjones wrote: »

How do you make your own deodorant please?

I have been asked this before and sorry but I can't ( make that won't:p ) put out my unique homemade recipe as anything on this site is copyright and my latest and best recipe is ( will be) worth the price of my book if I ever get my butt in to gear and write it................not sure if the world is ready for my brand of money saving, not so much extreme but only for those who want to really save money and quite a few "why didn't I think of that" ideas that are so simple but just required a bit of thinking "outside the box" I could have posted a very simple answer to one question which has cropped up recently and I have been watching to see if anyone would mention what was such an "obvious" soloution to me, yet ( so far, they haven't .....................)
Sorry I have digressed somewhat:o
However, I will tell you the ones that I have tried and found good and are already out there in cyberland;)

Best starting position for any "alternative" pit stuff, have hair free pits, if you don't you will always need more of whatever you choose to use.

Witch Hazel an Astringent, makes a good deodorant, dab generously on to pits and air dry.........
Vinegar, yep, the chip condiment, smells for just about 5 seconds and again works very well alone......... and no it doesn't matter which I have tried both brown and white vinegar and both worked the same.
Bicarb of soda this is best patted on to slightly damp pits as it means more will stick, if you rub it on, you might find it irritates as it is slightly abrasive, but it does work very well.
If you want the belt and braces approach use either of the above first & then pat on the bicarb of soda after.........however, if you decide to use the vinegar, wait until it air dries other wise you will start fizzing:D
If you don't want to fizz but fancy using the above you can always pat on some baby talc after.
Do not use after shaving pits...........:eek: it stings man!
Hope that helps

vl2588

What are your opinions on by-products? I am a vegetarian but wear leather shoes and have eaten the odd sweet containing gelatine because I believe they are by-products of the meat industry and therefore not increasing demand for killing animals. I have to admit that despite being a scientist and an avid researcher I have never properly looked into the ethics of by-products and whether they are truly such.

guineapig

Part of the profits of the meat industry come from the byproducts, so you are still creating a demand by indulging in these things.

We all have to make our choices and there will always be the "defensive carnivores" who will come up with all sorts of crap to defend theirs.

I do find comfort in the fact that despite the huge food increases of late I am spending less now than I was 18 months ago, we eat very well and eat a decent amount of vegan Junk food ( very comforting!) We both do very little exercise yet we are not overweight our BMI is normal and our cholesterol levels are low:D

I truely believe that it is no coincidence that a Vegan diet is both healthy and cheap;)

The vast majority of people don't think about what they eat or what it costs in terms of suffering, so just as I have to suffer the pain of watching humanity devour innocent animals "because they taste nice", I take comfort in every animal disease that comes along that could ( and can) kill humans:eek:

The way I see it humans have choice, animals do not.
The irony of all this is that recently those who couldn't care less about animals and their welfare have at last seen that the whole planet could benefit from not eating meat as it is not a cost effective way of feeding the world, not to mention the methane that adds to global warming !

I wonder if people would still find meat so attractive if it was advertised as what it really was?.............................minced pig(sauages) leg of deer ( Venison) ear 'oles eye'oles & ar-- 'oles (burgers, nuggets etc!!!)_

Would you ask your breast feeding friend to spare a drop for your cornflakes?
NO ? why not, it's more natural than drinking the breast milk of another species!
Do you eat your own periods? no? but you are happy enough to eat a hens period? yes,that's what eggs are!!!

It behoves us all to think about what we eat, if you do, then you might find your tastes and desires will change, but no one can make that change other than you and only when you are ready to do so.
If you want to find out more, (why it is not crurelty free being veggie) then google " cruelty in the dairy and egg industry" read some of that and then make up your mind!

vl2588

Personally I think it is far more cruelty free to eat meat and not dairy, since, as you well know, the dairy industry is far crueller than even factory farming. It is natural to eat mean (speaking as a biologist) but I don't as I have the choice not to and do not agree with methods used.

I avoid milk but definitely do not count as a vegan. I was vegan for a year and found it very hard to stay healthy (the state of my skin was scary!). I don't believe chickens mind their eggs being taken much (having observed my family's chickens) and I don't give a stuff about eating a hen's period. It is natural - animals do it. Sorry but I am too tired to formulate a proper argument for this but I do feel very strongly about this so maybe we can re-visit this topic later

I agree that drinking milk is highly un-natural. It is convenience and nothing more.

I am not convinced about by-products yet but I will make the effort to research it, I promise!

guineapig

Male chicks don't lay eggs so are of no value to the industry, thus they are "disposed of" by being minced alive or put into a large plastic bag and suffocated by sheer volume of all the chicks put into the same bag, or they are gassed.

Even "Free range" is not cruelty free because male chicks will never have any "value", but that's never mentioned anywhere..................

BTW I don't feel the need to "make an argument" as such, I state the facts as I see them and then let others make their choices.

vl2588

Hi again,

Oh, but I love to argue

I take your point about the male chicks. I do try to eat our own eggs but don't get them often enough to only do that. If the male chicks are killed instantly then I have no problem with it as if they feel no pain they certainly don't care once they're dead! I know it isn't nice but there are far more cruel things that go on. However, I am sure that they are not killed without pain (or at least not all of them) so it is something I should think about. Egg free pancakes??

guineapig

If you have no problem with the death of the male chicks, why on earth are you bothering to be veggie? or even say that you are? if you are trying to bait me you are wasting your time, funnily enough I don't feel the need to justify being vegan, ( the rewards speak for themselves) the irony is the number of people who eat meat/are veggie who feel the need to justify their choices!

Eat what you want it's your life, if you seek to take a life to tickle your taste buds ( in whatever animal form you choose) go ahead.