Question for Ethical Vegans

IamJen

Glad it worked out well for you guineapig! I guess you really lived up to your name, eh?

Gigervamp

Re Aubrey Organics, the FDA in America has issued them lots of fines for not complying with the cosmetic regulations. Not disclosing all of their ingredients (preservatives being one of the things they tend to hide) being one of the rules they flout.

It is possible to just use normal soap to wash hair. Follow it with a vinegar rinse to get rid of the residue.

Re animal testing, under the EU Cosmetics Directive 7th Ammendment, there was a ban on animal testing of finished products from 2004, and there's a deadline of March 11th 2009 for a complete ban on animal testing of cosmetic ingredients.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CONSLEG:1976L0768:20070919:EN:PDF article 4a.

Having said that, the ingredients in the Suma soap HAVE been tested on animals. The MSDS for propylene glycol for example, shows that it was tested on rats, mice and rabbits:
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Propylene_glycol-9927239



i've been a vegetarian and ethically aware for most of my life. I started making soaps and bath and body products a few years ago because I wanted to use products that were as natural as possible. It's been a big learning curve, totally fascinating and great fun, but I've also learnt to research properly, reading peer reviewed scientific data, msds' etc and I don't fall for the marketing of so called *green* cosmetics.
I hope you don't think I'm trying to put down your efforts at trying to find ethical products, but I want to make you aware of what a minefield it is!
If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I'm no expert and although I've learnt a lot, it's still only a small amount really. However, if I can't answer a question, I should be able to point you in the right direction.

guineapig

Thanks Gigervamp,
I have said in a past post ( I think) that I am willing to make my own shampoo bars, but thought it would be a good idea to check out what was already around, it is a pain the pipe to find out that things are " not always what they seem".
It would be so much easier to not give a damn and I have always had a sneaking suspicion that there are folks out there that like to "cash in on our conscience".

So I guess, now that I have figured out that glycerine soap seems to do the trick, does anyone make one that is really cruelty free and Vegan?
I do have a few shampoo bars to keep me going for a while, but I am always a year or two ahead of my own needs LOL!
That said, I am very good at getting rid of useless products and if I can't find what I want that fits the bill I may have to go shampoo commando LOL!
But I suspect I will get my butt into gear and make my own.........I already make my own deodorant, shaving lotion for DH, talc etc. Maybe I will get some soap nuts, but not sure if they might leave a residue type feeling behind?
All help and opinions greatfully accepted!

Gigervamp

There is a wealth of info over at http://www.soapdishforum.com
I've seen quite a few threads on making shampoo bars so I'd suggest having a look over there.

andrione1

thanks for starting this excellent thread. if you have a Home Bargains near you, there are load of animal friendly products, i got original source shower gel today for 99p.

i don't know if Marks spencers is vegan, but their toiletries are all against animal testing and i bought some gorgeous hand cream the other day, honey and milk.

i'm half asleep now, but i was just saying last night i want to start making my own stuff, so will read properly once awake!

cheers everyone. :beer:

pmorrisjones

How do you make your own deodorant please?

Reginald_Scallion

Gigervamp wrote: »

Having said that, the ingredients in the Suma soap HAVE been tested on animals. The MSDS for propylene glycol for example, shows that it was tested on rats, mice and rabbits:
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Propylene_glycol-9927239

Does that mean that any product containing salt is forbidden as well?

http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/SO/sodium_chloride.html

http://www.saltinstitute.org/15.html

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm

Pretty much everything has been tested to LD50 levels by someone. Companies that can claim to have not tested on animals are within their rights to do so if they and their manufacturers haven't tested, but unfortunately there is precious little they can do about other companies.

Editnote:Just realised, someone has performed LD50 testing on water.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/w0600.htm

Reginald_Scallion

andrione1 wrote: »

i don't know if Marks spencers is vegan, but their toiletries are all against animal testing and i bought some gorgeous hand cream the other day, honey and milk.

Mmm - products involving milk aren't acceptable for vegans, and most vegans won't eat honey. Sounds pretty good, though.

andrione1

Reginald_Scallion wrote: »

Mmm - products involving milk aren't acceptable for vegans, and most vegans won't eat honey. Sounds pretty good, though.

oh yeah
i'm not a vegan :rotfl:
they did have other kinds too honest :A

guineapig

partial quote by Gigervamp

Having said that, the ingredients in the Suma soap HAVE been tested on animals. The MSDS for propylene glycol for example, shows that it was tested on rats, mice and rabbits:
http://www.sciencelab.com/xMSDS-Propylene_glycol-9927239
End quote

I was pretty confident that Suma was ok as they are listed in the Vegan Animal Free shopper, which is a wealth of information for Vegans and would-be Vegans, so seeing that post made me think I had to persue this a little further, so I asked Suma if they were indeed cruelty free as I had been led to believe, here with his prior permission is his reply:

Good afternoon!

I can assure you that Suma has a strict policy of not accepting products that were tested on animals. Every year, we have to get confirmation from our suppliers about the provenance of the products and their supplies to continue BUAV registration. Our suppliers have to confirm that they haven't tested the products on animals, and they also have to confirm that they haven't commissioned someone else to do that work.

We follow this through with every company manufacturing our bodycare products. However, while our suppliers and manufacturers have not tested on animals, this does not preclude other companies from testing the same ingredients on animals, which is where the confusion has arisen. We will not use a supplier who has tested on animals.

We'd welcome a world where we could say, "Our supplier has not tested this product on animals, so nobody else can either," but in reality it's not going to happen.

Kindest regards

Gary Braithwaite
Suma Customer Information