Back boiler on last legs (apparently)

sal

Hi,

We moved into our present house in June this year, we have a back boiler and a very ugly gas fire, but hadn't budgeted to change them for a good while yet. Today I booked British Gas to come in to service the central heating and boiler ready for their boiler insurance cover. The engineer took one look and said they couldn't help with servicing as all parts are now unavailable. Also he discovered the airbrick had been plastered over and said that the system was basically unsafe and we are at risk!

He told us that British Gas would cancel the contract and refund me any payments made, also that they could offer 22% off a new boiler. How kind.

Anyway, it looks like we may have to dig deep and get a boiler and fire sooner rather than later, not by British Gas though, no offence but they don't get much good press on this site.

So, my question is, where do we go from here? There are usually two of us, sometimes five (I know but it's complicated) in a three bedroomed semi. Do we get a regular boiler or a combi? We have an electric shower so that shouldn't be a problem(?). We don't like the house too hot, rarely have the heating on more than one hour morning and night and use the shower more than the bath. We plan to get a gas stove type fire to stand proud of the wall, had one before and they are amazingingly hot.

Also, does the back boiler have to be removed or just disconnected? I can imagine one hell of a mess if it is removed and I'm just about to have a new floor fitted so I would prefer to leave in where it is. There is an outside wall available for the new boiler, albeit a good way off from the current boiler.

Sorry to go on but my head is full of questions at the moment and I need some answers so that I can sleep tonight!

Help?

sal

moneysavingplumber

The back-boiler will need to be removed, as well as the flue-liner if you wish to use the chimney for anything else.

There was talk of dispensation from the new Part L building regs for replacement back boilers, but I don't think anything came of it, and you would only be able to have one of a range of purpose made fire-fronts to go with it. They are one of the least efficient boilers (band D) and require the most maintenance for ensured safe operation. I'm not a fan of British Gas but it sounds like he did absolutely the right thing, back boilers can be lethal if not maintained or running correctly.

Whether or not you have a combi is a matter of what you expect from your hot water system. You will lose the hot water cylinder, which will free up space and if you keep the electric shower you'll have some back-up if the boiler breaks down. If your mains water pressure is good however, you could have a very good mixer shower and enjoy more powerful showers, and probably more economical too. The downside is that most combis will only sustain their specified hot water flowrates at one tap at a time, and on most it's only between 9 and 12 litres a minute at a 35 degree temperature rise, compared with more like 20 litres a minute that you will enjoy with a stored system, although as you shower more than bath it may not be a problem.

Another question is the age of your heating system, if the pipe work and radiators and valves are subject to any corrosion or wear, suddenly subjecting it to pressures of up to 2.5/3 bar (your system is most likely now open/vented as opposed to pressurised) could cause leaks and even if not enough to notice, may cause the combi to regularly lose pressure and 'lock-out', so you may need to consider fully changing the system if there is such evidence of wear.

I could ramble on forever with more points to consider, but that may be enough to start with!

sal

Thanks for your quick reply, that gives me some great points to start with. I do like to have as much info as possible before I get quotes in and this is a completely new field for me.

We had the electric shower fitted recently as the previous mixer shower was fine drizzle at best so we are very happy with the new shower.

Initially I baulked at the idea of a combi system as my Dad isn't thrilled with his but I'm coming round to the idea of one slowly. Only using one tap at a time doesn't sound like a problem to me. Quite often we only use a couple of bowls of washing up water in a day so it would save on heating the whole tank for nothing and losing the hot water tank would give extra storage.

I'm worried about the back boiler being removed - will that mean knocking a great hole in the chimney breast? Currently there's no fireplace, just an ugly fire on the wall, so I'd like to replace that with a stove, not sure about what to put against the wall, probably not much.

Thanks, sal

moneysavingplumber

sal wrote:

I'm worried about the back boiler being removed - will that mean knocking a great hole in the chimney breast? Currently there's no fireplace, just an ugly fire on the wall, so I'd like to replace that with a stove, not sure about what to put against the wall, probably not much.

Thanks, sal

It depends on which boiler it is, it is likely to have been opened and then made good when the boiler was fitted. The smaller Baxi Bermuda might come out without cutting any brickwork but there's likely to be some making good either way, but it shouldn't be too bad. The size of the opening that's been left depends on specifications determined by the firefront that you have. It's not likely to be as horrendous a job as you imagine, and either way I don't think you are going to be able to avoid doing it.

sal

That's good news. Time to get some quotes in then, I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks for the info,

sal

moneysavingplumber

No worries, good luck!

moneysavingplumber

sal wrote:

Initially I baulked at the idea of a combi system as my Dad isn't thrilled with his but I'm coming round to the idea of one slowly. Only using one tap at a time doesn't sound like a problem to me.

Just an afterthought, some combis are much better than others. The frontrunners are Vaillant and Worcester but for value, in my opinion, you can't beat Alpha ( https://www.alpha-boilers.com ). The only drawback on the Alpha range is that they look ever-so-slightly dated but they are packed with great features and they are superbly reliable. I've fitted alot and have not had any problems with ANY of them, as opposed to the mighty Baxi of which I've fitted a fair number and had problems with almost all of them (combis that is, not their regular boilers).

jobbingmusician

Moneysaving plumber has made some really helpful suggestions, but just one further point.

I have heard of cases where British Gas have shaken their heads sadly over a boiler, but an independent (CORGI) plumber has been able to source and fit the parts that BG swear are unavailable. Would it be worth getting a second opinion before you put your current boiler down? I understand about not wanting to pay another call-out charge, but you might be able to ring another plumber and say 'I've got an xyz boiler - can you get parts for it'. (In fact, if you said on this thread what make and model it is, maybe a helpful person like moneysavingplumber might be able to confirm whether parts are available???)

I only mention this as I have also heard that lots of BG plumbers have been told to act as high pressure salesmen, nowadays....so they might be tempted to say that a boiler is not repairable if parts are a bit hard to get hold of, but still possible, let us say!

moneysavingplumber

eastchristina wrote:

Moneysaving plumber has made some really helpful suggestions, but just one further point.

I have heard of cases where British Gas have shaken their heads sadly over a boiler, but an independent (CORGI) plumber has been able to source and fit the parts that BG swear are unavailable. Would it be worth getting a second opinion before you put your current boiler down? I understand about not wanting to pay another call-out charge, but you might be able to ring another plumber and say 'I've got an xyz boiler - can you get parts for it'. (In fact, if you said on this thread what make and model it is, maybe a helpful person like moneysavingplumber might be able to confirm whether parts are available???)

I only mention this as I have also heard that lots of BG plumbers have been told to act as high pressure salesmen, nowadays....so they might be tempted to say that a boiler is not repairable if parts are a bit hard to get hold of, but still possible, let us say!

I agree, the parts may well be still available, today I fitted a new pilot burner and injector, spark generator and thermocouple to a Baxi 401 back boiler, the guy (who is an old friend of mine) is having a new boiler fitted anyway as he's having a new kitchen and want rid of the back boiler, but needs the existing repaired as a stop-gap. Most Baxi back-boilers still have parts available, it's only the more obscure Thorn and Potterton ones that you may have trouble finding bits for. I'd be more than happy to check if you have the make and model.

I personally am only 'keen' because I personally think back boilers are quite dangerous if not fully maintained and the less of them around the better in my opinion.

Poppy9

I have a Baxi back boiler (with horrendous fire in front). When we moved in 10 years ago we had original receipts from previous owners which showed the boiler was then 20 years old. BG have always covered it and serviced it under their 3* service. There was no air brick in the room, which they noted, but they didn't tell us to turn boiler off. A few years ago we replaced the patio doors (which is the only external wall on the room) with french doors specially so we could have an air vent fitted. The size of the hole was fine but the BG didn't like the style of vent cover so we had to change :rolleyes:

Anyway we want rid of nasty fire front. Can we just change the fire or do we have to do fire and boiler at same time? If we do change boiler what are the options? If we go for a non back boiler will all our pipe work have to change throughout the house. Currently the back boiler is in the dinning room.

Thanks for any help

moneysavingplumber

Poppy9 wrote:

I have a Baxi back boiler (with horrendous fire in front). When we moved in 10 years ago we had original receipts from previous owners which showed the boiler was then 20 years old. BG have always covered it and serviced it under their 3* service. There was no air brick in the room, which they noted, but they didn't tell us to turn boiler off.

They should have, ventilation and flueing are the primary issues relating to possible dangers of this boiler, no ventilation at all would be classified as 'Immediately Dangerous' (I think, but will check, if not it is still 'At Risk' which requires the same action).

Poppy9 wrote:

Anyway we want rid of nasty fire front. Can we just change the fire or do we have to do fire and boiler at same time? If we do change boiler what are the options? If we go for a non back boiler will all our pipe work have to change throughout the house. Currently the back boiler is in the dinning room.

Thanks for any help

Some of the Baxi fire fronts are interchangeable, but not all as the boiler may be installed in a slightly different position to accommodate that fire front. Most good plumbers merchants should still have literature on the Bermuda and fire fronts, which should have the relevant info.