Huge Gas bill

kentc81

Wondering if anyone can help,

I have today received a bill for over £1000

this is cause because the previous bills have been estimates. I'm not sure how far this goes back.

this bill might be right, who knows,

does anyone know how i can argue to get this bill reduced?!

Thanks,

soolin

First check that the bill is roughly correct, was the meter actually read or is this another estimate?

If it is another estimate then take your own reading and if it is lower that that shown on the bill phone up and ask them to recaculate the bill based on your reading.

If however this is the first 'true' bill after a series of estimates then you have no choice but to pay. As consumers we should take some responsibility and if estimates come in too regularly and are too low then either just put the difference in a savings account unttil the true bill comes in or phone the gas company and give them your true reading and ask them to recalculate your bill.

If this bill is an accurate bill and reflects an underpayment caused by estimates then you'll have to pay it. However, it might be worth phoning to ask if you can pay in instalments.

quiet_advisor

1/ Check the actual reading on the meter and confirm that it lines up roughly with the reading used on the bill.

2/ If BG is now charging for extra units because of estimates over a long period, it should not be charging the extra units at today's tariff rates - much of the consumption could have been at times when rates were up to 50% less than those prevailing today. You could work it out by scaling up the previous bills.

3/ BG has a licence obligation to make reasonable endeavours to physically read and inspect the meter every two years - on safety grounds. If it has not made a real effort, e.g letters seeking access, then I would only offer to pay back for two years consumption - I think there is now a limit on how far suppliers can go back, separate from the statute of limitation, but am not sure - Energywatch will advise you. Ask BG what steps it has taken to meet its licence obligations in your case - it should have a record. Put everything by e-mail to BG so you have a record - phoning is not recommended.

4/ I suggest make a reasonable offer, and if it rejected then refer to Energywatch - or dicuss tactics first with Energywatch before making an offer.

Best of luck!

spiro

quiet_advisor wrote: »

1/ Check the actual reading on the meter and confirm that it lines up roughly with the reading used on the bill.

2/ If BG is now charging for extra units because of estimates over a long period, it should not be charging the extra units at today's tariff rates - much of the consumption could have been at times when rates were up to 50% less than those prevailing today. You could work it out by scaling up the previous bills.

3/ BG has a licence obligation to make reasonable endeavours to physically read and inspect the meter every two years - on safety grounds. If it has not made a real effort, e.g letters seeking access, then I would only offer to pay back for two years consumption - I think there is now a limit on how far suppliers can go back, separate from the statute of limitation, but am not sure - Energywatch will advise you. Ask BG what steps it has taken to meet its licence obligations in your case - it should have a record. Put everything by e-mail to BG so you have a record - phoning is not recommended.

4/ I suggest make a reasonable offer, and if it rejected then refer to Energywatch - or dicuss tactics first with Energywatch before making an offer.

Best of luck!

Why in point 2 and 3 do you refer to BG? It may not be them that is the supplier and the obligation is on the supplier not BG.

quiet_advisor

spiro wrote: »

Why in point 2 and 3 do you refer to BG? It may not be them that is the supplier and the obligation is on the supplier not BG.

Thanks - I misread the OP

For "BG" read "gas supplier"

kentc81

quiet_advisor wrote: »

1/ Check the actual reading on the meter and confirm that it lines up roughly with the reading used on the bill.

2/ If BG is now charging for extra units because of estimates over a long period, it should not be charging the extra units at today's tariff rates - much of the consumption could have been at times when rates were up to 50% less than those prevailing today. You could work it out by scaling up the previous bills.

3/ BG has a licence obligation to make reasonable endeavours to physically read and inspect the meter every two years - on safety grounds. If it has not made a real effort, e.g letters seeking access, then I would only offer to pay back for two years consumption - I think there is now a limit on how far suppliers can go back, separate from the statute of limitation, but am not sure - Energywatch will advise you. Ask BG what steps it has taken to meet its licence obligations in your case - it should have a record. Put everything by e-mail to BG so you have a record - phoning is not recommended.

4/ I suggest make a reasonable offer, and if it rejected then refer to Energywatch - or dicuss tactics first with Energywatch before making an offer.

Best of luck!

Thanks for responding, thats a great help :T

gas supplier is scottish gas, which is the same as BG, so that fine.

the reading is right unfortunatly

I called energy watch , and they did confirm. "energy supplier should make reasonable endeavour to get a reading every 2 years".

I have no idea when last meter was read, so going to call them to find out.

how am i suppose to work out what 2 years worth of consumption would be ?
and whats a reasonable offer ? 75% of the bill etc?

I realise consumers should take responsibility in the bills, but i'm helping someone whose first language is not english, so they were not aware these were estimates

J_C1

I would suggest that 75% is not what they want , they will want 100%,. I would roughly work out what your usage per month is and calculate what you should be paying monthly and then see what you can afford on top of that to pay off the outstanding.

kentc81

J_C1 wrote: »

I would suggest that 75% is not what they want , they will want 100%,. I would roughly work out what your usage per month is and calculate what you should be paying monthly and then see what you can afford on top of that to pay off the outstanding.

any business would want the full 100%.

the bill is charging usage under todays prices, i dont know how far back this bill is, but prices were cheaper at some stage

quiet_advisor

It is reasonable for the supplier to expect full payment, at the average price for the estimated period, not all at present prices. This has only become an issue with such big price increases. Energy suppliers are now systematically overcharging customers by they way they estimate bills at present prices.

My supplier charges me 3.5p/kWh at present for the follow rate part of the tariff, after the standing charges have been recovered. In July 2006 the equivalent rate was 1.9p/kWh.

The OP quotes a £1000 bill being produced. This is a high volume of gas so the estimated period must be long. If the last previous estimate was in (say) July 2006, it is reasonable to assume that the extra gas has been evenly used over the two year period - unless the gas supplier can prove otherwise - it is not up to the customer to prove anything other than a typical consumption. £1000 of gas at 3.5p = 28571 kWh

The simple average price for gas in the period is the average of 1.9 and 3.5, i.e. 2.7 p/kWh. So the true cost of the gas used in this example is;
2.7 * 28571 = £771, NOT £1000. I appreciate this is a crude calulcation of average price, but if anything it favours the supplier becasue the way prices have increased more recently.


The supplier will argue that the customer has had the benefit of the money that should have been paid to them. I have some sympathy with that view, but not 100%:

• what efforts did the supplier make to read the meter - were appointments, or evening/weekend visits offered? Ask the supplier what action it took.
• the supplier is the expert at gas consumption, not the customer - why were the estimates set so low? If the supplier chooses not to ask information regarding size of house and number of occupants, it should accept some responsibilty for the poor quality estimates.
• there is cheap technology avaiaiable that would provide meter readings without gaining entry to the house. If the supplier chooses not to fit it, it can't then put the onus on the customer for poor quality estimates.
• energy supply is one of the few industries I can think of where the supplier tries to put part of the responsibility onto the customer for accurate billing. The only other examples I can think of are the small local cafes in Turkey where you sit down after the meal and tell the owner what you had, and pay accordingly.

So it might be reasonable to add on something for interest lost by the supplier, and round up the £771 to £800, and make an offer to repay that amount over a period of time, to be negotiated.

I suggest find out from the supplier the date of the previous actual meter reading and the follow-on tariff price at that time, you will have the present follow-on rate from the recent bill, and carry out a similar calculation to the above. I also suggest asking the supplier to confirm what action it has taken to read and inspect the meter - it should be keeping a record of letters sent, phone calls made, visits made etc. I assume the meter is inside the house - mine is outside and I still get estimated bills - that is because the supplier can't be bothered to read the meter every quarter!

I assume that the £1000 is as a result of previous estimated bills now being corrected by an actual reading, not outstanding debt from unpaid bills. The supplier will probably require authority from the account holder if you want to act on someone's behalf.

Why not have a go at a calcualtion and ask Energywatch for a view, before making any offer to the supplier?


Best of luck.

Cardew

quiet_advisor wrote: »

Energy suppliers are now systematically overcharging customers by they way they estimate bills at present prices.

.

I don't disagree with the thrust of your posts, but the statement above is a 'double-edged sword' when meter readings are over estimated!

Where bills have built up over a long time, the normal practice for energy companies(if you push hard enough) is to reduce the outstanding amount by 15%-20% and allow you to repay over the time it has taken for the debt to build up.

However this is a goodwill measure and not a right.

As has been pointed out the customer cannot escape from their responsibility to check the meter readings and correct them - this is usually spelt out in the small print T & Cs

I would suggest that any 'negotiation' be carried out in writing and not on the phone, if the initial approach is not a success.

quiet_advisor

"Where bills have built up over a long time, the normal practice for energy companies(if you push hard enough) is to reduce the outstanding amount by 15%-20% and allow you to repay over the time it has taken for the debt to build up.
However this is a goodwill measure and not a right."



A good point, but on the other hand, suppliers have no right to overcharge customers, which they are knowingly doing in some cases at present. One of the problems is that those customers who are the least able to push the supplier hard are often the same customers who can least afford to be overpaying.

If my approach produces the odd situation where the supplier is undercharging, let them argue the case too! I am not aware of a significant problem where suppliers are paying back big chunks of money due to overbilling on poor estimates.