Orange End of Contract PAC Code - WARNING

blackice_2

Just a note to make everyone aware of this situation that exists with Orange.  I phoned them to end my contract (giving one months notice as required) and they ended up convincing me that having a PAC code was a good idea because I would be able to transfer my existing mobile number to my new contract (didn't know at this point that I could not use this with Orange, only other networks ???

I was told that I would have a letter confirming the PAC code, all ok I thought... the letter came through as promised but I just thought that it was confirmation of the actual PAC code so I did not really read it (it did mention that the code was only valid for 30 days blah blah blah...

When I went to order my new phone I was told by the co (did not order direct as a rip off to upgrade) that I could not use the PAC code as I was taking another orange contract out  >:(  I then phoned Orange to say that as I could not use my PAC code as I was staying with Orange & could I convert sim to PAYT, I was told that I would have to give another months notice.  I thought that this was unreasonable so told them not to bother as my contract was ending in September anyway and was not prepared to have an extended overlap due to their stupid conditions!

Got my new phone anyway and had an overlap with my old contract of like 10 days or something (my choice)... all ok I assumed until I got my bill...  I could not believe it, I have been charged nearly £70.00 (Sept 2 Oct).  The bill was like 2 weeks late so by the time I had worked it all out (as they like to merge bills together to confuse us mere mortals) and called Orange I had also been billed for the next period (Oct 2 Nov) as well!!!  I was told that I would need to speak to disconnections on the Monday.  

I explained all that had happened and that I should have been told that the non use of the PAC code would leave my old contract running, they had three oportunities to have told me this but never bothered.  They reckon that it is stated in the confirmation letter in case staff forget to mention this but I can tell you that it isn't... it may be mentioned in a non dispript way but it is certainly not clearly stated.

They would only end my contract from that day forward so I have had to pay two months bills for my old phone which I thought was disconnected which I never used since the end of August  >:(  I was very angry - so called team leader (not allowed to speak to manager) not even phased by making a pregnant woman cry!

No way that they would budge, what made it worse is that my new contract (in excess of £30.00 pm) was with them and this did not seem to make any difference.  Wish I had of gone with another provider now after the way that I was treated.  They failed to inform me properly and I end up footing the bill of £30.00 inc VAT for a phone that I clearly wasn't using...  I have been with them for about 5 years now - seems they are not bothered about keeping their loyal customers happy.

Ended up writing them a massive complaint letter and managed to get half of the money back (money was not really the issue but made the situation worse).  They even admitted that the letter was not made clear enough and that they would be submitting feedback to the relevant dept. as it seems that they have had the same problem b4 with other customers complaining.

I know this is a long e-mail but a bit of a complicated matter but in a nutshell:-

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT OBTAINING A PAC CODE WILL NOT END YOUR CONTRACT WHEN IT EXPIRES, IF YOU DO NOT USE THE CODE THE CONTRACT WILL CONTINUE RUNNING AND THEY WILL BILL YOU REGARDLESS!

Woby_Tide

so the morale of the story is read the small print and letters they send?

re: PAC's thats always been the case, if you don't use them in the 30 days they expire and you need a new one, only when you issue it to another supplier and they log it in the central MNP database does it serve to give notice on your account

waterstar

Woby_tide wrote

[glow=red,2,300]re: PAC's thats always been the case, if you don't use them in the 30 days they expire and you need a new one, only when you issue it to another supplier and they log it in the central MNP database does it serve to give notice on your account [/glow]

and if "30 days notice " is required under the contract (assuming out of any period such as initial 12 months) when does the 30 days commence? As I read "Woby_tide's posting, the 30 days commences when the porting is notified to the "central register", which would imply that you pay 30 days charges to the Service Provider you have just left for which you get minimal or no benefit, depending on the actual date of porting relative to when it is notified to the central register! Surely that could not be correct?

Woby_Tide

sorry I probably wasn't very clear, the 'notice' period 'starts' on issue of the PAC, however the 'notice' won't kick in and be effective unless you give the PAC to a new provider and they enter it into the MNP database

some more info here

http://www.carphonewarehouse.com/commerce/servlet/gben-knowledgebase-Show?ARTICLE=NETTAR.UGTI.PORTING

edit: by rights I think the advice is that when you have the PAC code, if you wait until approx 10 days before obtaining new contract and giving the PAC to new providor you limit the overlap of contracts, however you do run the risk that the new contract may not be activated in time so I guess the existing contract will continue to run if the porting date is set later than the 10 days you worked on

blackice_2

Well there was no small print that is my point - the letter is full of jargon, surely they can't expect everyone to automatically know about PAC codes and seeing as I called originally to specifically ask to terminate my contract as I was getting a new phone and contract then they most certainly should have told me and not expect me to be a mind reader!   :-/

Copy of text from Carphone Warehouse website:-

Moving your phone number when you change your supplier of airtime is sometimes referred to as Mobile Number Portability or Migrations but we will refer to it here as a transfer.

The transfer process allows you to keep your mobile phone number(s) whether you want to:

*Change Network and Service Provider at the same time.
*Remain on the same Network and change Service Provider.
*Change Network and remain with the same Service Provider.

Don't you think that this suggest that you can keep your number regardless of whether you want to remain with the same provider? Orange told me that you can't do this but maybe it varies depending on who is doing it?

Woby_Tide

Don't you think that this suggest that you can keep your number regardless of whether you want to remain with the same provider?  

No, I think you're confusing Networks and Service Providers, the Network is Orange/Voda/O2/T-Mobile, the SP could be Orange/Singlepoint/Voda Retail/Voda Online/O2 Online/O2/T-Mobile, PAC pretty much only works when moving network, the most notable exception I think nowadays is moving from Voda Singlepoint to Voda Other even then I'm not sure if that is true though

blackice_2

I see your point but as Orange do all the billing themselves they are classed as Network & SP so maybe it isn't possible but in my opinion it is all a bit confusing and not made clear by them.

Guess they just love to rip people off. As a gesture of goodwill they could have refunded those two months charges seeing as I had:-

1. Taken a high tariff contract with them for another year

2. They could clearly see that I had not used old contract for that period hence they would not lose anything by refunding.

3. I have been a loyal customer always paying bills on time etc etc for the past 5 years!

Even admitting that their letter is not clear, is basically accepting that they were wrong and are failing to inform their customers properly.

I just thought that people should know about this as I would not want anyone else to get caught out like I did

magic

right in and complain. regardless of whether or not there was smallprint in the letter, it would have been good customer service to let you know. and even after all this, the fact they won't refund the money even though you have been a customer with them for so long and are still a customer is disgraceful in my opinion. i will bear this post in mind when i come to end my orange contract shortly.

Steve_xx

I agree with Mike Black that Orange, in his instance, have behaved shamefully towards him.

Mike, I suggest that you write to them again and ask for your rentals to be refunded. This time you might also tell them that you will teminate the new contract soonest as a result of their behaviour and that you have several friends who have Orange phones and that all will be terminated if they don't act reasonably.

Woby_Tide

I'd imagine Orange wouldn't mind them cancelling at all as they would still be entitled to 10 months line rental under the terms of the contract, a very hollow threat

it's a harsh market out there currently and loyalty 'bonus' within the mobile market has all but ended now the number of users is now high enough to sustain the business, also like most other business', if people don't keep an eye on their terms and conditions the outcome is generally costly whether it be with missed cashbacks, or contracts continuing.

kilo_2

I feel it is worth writing in to ask if they can refund the line rental for the overlap... however you should do it with a pleading ' I was ignorant' tone rather than a 'you ripped me off' tone. This is simply b/c they have gone by the rules all networks have always used.

If they so no, let it go...chalk it down to experience, as they say. Orange haven't deliberately tried to rip you off...their mistake was probably assuming everyone ringing in and asking for a PAC code knows all the rules of play.