job offer! but want me to go self employed?

beetlebumm

can anyone help? i've been offered a job for a very small business, its owned by a couple and they are running it has a Partnership. There are no other employees and would like some help in the office and offered me a part time position. Although they say they are not allowed to take me on as an employee because they are in a partnership and it is not allowed. they said i would have to be self employed. As i will use all their equipment and office this doesn't seem right to me. i would love this job however i don't want to be claiming to the tax office that i am self employed if this really isnt the case. Very confused!

londondulwich

Running as business as a partnership does not mean you cannot have employees. For example most dentists operate on a partnership basis, this does not mean the nurses and other staff are all partners.

The main difference between a partnership and a company is liability for debts. A company is only liable up to the limit of its assets. So after the stock and premises are sold that's it.

When a partnership goes bust the partners themselves are liable. So creditors can go after their personal possessions, (as long as they are not tucked away somewhere in Brazil or Russia etc...).

So that's lie number 1 exposed.

beetlebumm

Thanks for the previous post. Wondering how i would stand if they are only prepared to take me on as self employed, could really do with the work. Can you class yourself as self employed or self assessed if you are working for somebody and are prepared to sort out your own N.I cont and tax? it's only for a few hours a week so there wouldn't be much tax to pay at all.

londondulwich

The consequences are more serious for your prospective customers/ employers than for you.

If push comes to shove you are in safe position.

An employee enjoys the protection of statutory benefits like holiday pay, redundancy pay, rest breaks, National Insurance contributions etc...

A worker doesn't.

If you satisfy the description of an employee then that's what you are.

Just because someone labels a teapot as a spade and insists that all the people who use it call it a 'spade' wont make it so. Maybe this person even produces an illustrated document which users must sign acknowledging that they are brewing tea with a 'spade'. Even so the signatures on that document will be worthless.

If the Inland Revenue take an interest you will be alright, if you've properly declared your earnings.

mummytofour

Yes you can be classed as self employed. I would not touch this job for the simple reason they are trying to avoid paying tax and NI tight wotsits. In addition you have little job protection, if they don't want to give you any work they don't have too.

whatatwit

The Inland Revenue has strict rules as to who can be classed as an employee or is self employed. It is not up to the employer to decide.

The main criteria used to be who decided when the work was done and where and who.
So, if you were doing typing from home, using your own equipment, at a time you chose and if needed you get someone else to do it for you, then you might be classed as self employed.

If you have set hours then it would be more likely that you were an employee.

Anyone can have a PAYE (pay as you earn) scheme in their name, even nannies/domestics are subject to this. But as Londondulwich points out, you would be entitled to a lot more as an employee.

londondulwich

Sorry, didn't make myself clear.

You are in a double bluff situation.

This couple who want you to work for them are relying on their perception of your ignorance to exploit you.

They think that because they tell you that you are self-employed and you nod, that you think you are self-employed.

If they will control what you do, where you do it, with what materials, at what time, and for how much, you will not be self-employed. You would be an employee.

Suppose you decide to have children and this couple refuse to pay you maternity/ paternity leave because you are 'self-employed'. If you were to present this label to a tribunal and call it a sham the law would be on your side. They would be forced to pay you that and anything else you were owed for the time you worked for them.

Double bluff

Conor_3

You will not be classed as self employed for this position by HMRC primarily because you cannot meet the following:
1) You do not decide your own hours.
2) You cannot send someone to do the work in your place.

beetlebumm

Sorry didn't mention that this is a casual temporary position to help out while one of the partners need to take some time off work and would only be for a few months, if that, possibly leading to cover for them in the office when they are away on hols a few times a year. I don't think they want to get into any extra paperwork and would prefer if i sorted my own tax out. Is self assessment tax different to self employment tax?

Conor_3

beetlebumm wrote: »

Sorry didn't mention that this is a casual temporary position to help out while one of the partners need to take some time off work and would only be for a few months, if that, possibly leading to cover for them in the office when they are away on hols a few times a year. I don't think they want to get into any extra paperwork and would prefer if i sorted my own tax out. Is self assessment tax different to self employment tax?

No. And it makes no difference if the job is for a week or a year. There is virtually no paperwork to get involved with on their part other than sending off your P45 to the IR and getting your tax code back.

They're trying to swindle HMRC out of employers NI, plain and simple and to swindle YOU out of holiday pay and statutory notice period.

C_Ronaldo

I came across a job which asked you be self employed and to pay your own tax and NI, didnt go for the job in the end,