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Dithering_Dad

lostinrates wrote: »

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

To have children and a decent family life, you could move to the burbs but close to a tube/railway stop for work, you could find part-time legal work at a locally and your OH could continue his city job.

I'm guessing you don't work city hours?

I work on Old Street (EC1) and have a studio apartment that I live in during the week and a 4 bed detached that I visit at the weekend. I generally work 10-12 hr days. I'm living the middle-class dream and boy do I pay for it!

I also work alongside people who live in the burbs and get a train in in the morning (Liverpool Street is within walking distance of here) or tube or both.

Dithering_Dad

lostinrates wrote: »

Sorry DD, I re read this bit...I admit to being the one of many who wants a lot , but no plasma tvs! and to an extent I agree with you that its impossible to have it all....and that if you have a family something has to give. But I think that was the very point lynspower was making isn't it? That people do struggle to get by on one salary providing a good standard of living on one salary .

Then you cut your cloth to suit your circumstances, just like our parents and grandparents did.

My parents didn't have a car when I was a kid, their parents never had a car. They lived in terraced houses with backyards and shopped locally on the high street. They knew all the neighbours and all the shop holders, we even had 'tick' at our local grocers. As kids we played in the backstreet and were safe because all the mums knew us and kept and eye on us and their own kids. We only went to a restaurant for a special occasion (like a birthday). My parents both worked in local factories so my Gran (who lived 2 streets away) looked after us until Mum came home.

We didn't have fast broadband access, mobile phones, satellite TV, more than 1 telly, dishwashers, computers, etc etc. Imagine how much you could save each month without all these outgoings? We didn't need them then and we don't need them now. We WANT them, and that's fine if we can afford them.

lostinrates

Sorry DD! You'll know then that the 10-12 hour days are relatively light for many people working around you then, making commuting impossible, and either lodging or living further into London a necessity for some. Like you, my DH is a weekend husband....or a some weekend husbands, this weekend he was home but worked here! Unlike you we think we'd struggle to afford a studio, DH lodges, so we can do just what you say...save. We are really lucky because even by city lawyer standards Dhs job pays well, but its still never enough!

My parents got a car in the 70s, (the one) but they could afford train travel more easily and their housing expence to income ratio was much better too. People who lived in places like Surbiton and Richmond were hardcore commuters, but of course, those places are really expensive and the day hasn't got longer to allow London workers to live further and further away...people need sleep too, even if they can afford higher fares for longer journeys.

Dh and I are still a one car couple, and foresee wver needing to be otherwise. Its a small car too. We do have an old tv, but its due to ecome redundant with the digital switch over...we're not going to bother to replace it, don't watch it enough. Frome what else is on your list...well, I'm living with parents, and they DO have a dishwasher...I'm used to not having one,....I tend to do my washing up by hand still, force of habit. Broadband access IS mandatory for work, but we don't use the telephone, we sometimes use skype, but mainly email. I have a mobile...we went contract for the first time in five years this year to give us unlimited calls to each other for a flat fee....have decided that its not really worthwhile, so won't renew next year. I'm typing on my parents computer now...but I have the first computer I had 11 years ago now, which I bought for university and have patched together with upgrades since. I think we DO need them, especially making the comprimises to cut our cloth if we are to have any contact with each other.

We also have no credit card debt or loans and are saving, but the comprimises we have made seem harsh to our parents AND grandparents.

I agree that there is a huge blur when separateing needs and wants is concerned, but I disagree that for profesionals some of the expensive technologies are wants, if they want to be employed!

WTF?_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Again, this is a lifestyle choice that you have to make. If you can afford to fund your child through University then great, if you can't afford to then they either self fund via student loans and part-time jobs or by working for a couple of years first and saving the money or they just don't go to university at all.

Everyone seems to want to have a middleclass lifestyle but complain about the amount of work they have to do to achieve and then maintain it.

My parents certainly weren't middle class and definitely could not afford to fund my way through university.

Luckily, they didn't have to as back in those days you got fees paid and a student grant to support you. Mind you, you did have to prove that you possessed enough academic smarts to be worth educating to third level at the public's expense.

tr3mor

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

We didn't have fast broadband access, mobile phones, satellite TV, more than 1 telly, dishwashers, computers, etc etc. Imagine how much you could save each month without all these outgoings? We didn't need them then and we don't need them now. We WANT them, and that's fine if we can afford them.

http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm

:money:

Dithering_Dad

lostinrates wrote: »

Sorry DD! You'll know then that the 10-12 hour days are relatively light for many people working around you then, making commuting impossible, and either lodging or living further into London a necessity for some. Like you, my DH is a weekend husband....or a some weekend husbands, this weekend he was home but worked here! Unlike you we think we'd struggle to afford a studio, DH lodges, so we can do just what you say...save. We are really lucky because even by city lawyer standards Dhs job pays well, but its still never enough!

....................

I agree that there is a huge blur when separateing needs and wants is concerned, but I disagree that for profesionals some of the expensive technologies are wants, if they want to be employed!

The people at the company I'm currently contracting at work a strict 7.5 hr week, usually it's the same old faces here after 5:30pm, mine being one of them. The options for you are either for your hubby to move to a company with a better 'work/life' balance or to move to a city with easier commute times and cheaper suburbs. Your OH choses to work at his current company and you choose to live in/around London. Your OH may be paid less at another company or in another city, but he might enjoy his life much more - it's the choice he has to make.

I work as an I.T. Contractor and so need to have a laptop and a mobile phone, this is supplied by my own limited company and there are tax advantages for me to do this. When I was a permie, I used to argue that if they want to call me out of hours, or if they wanted me to work from home then they would have to supply a computer and phone. They did (they also paid for broadband access).

If being able to use a computer at home improves your job prospects or makes you money, then it's an investment. If it sits there gathering dust or is used for games or internet surfing then it's a liability and as such is not a necessity. You have to make a judgement call on whether the benefits outweigh the costs (same with mobile phones, etc, etc.).

tr3mor wrote: »

http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm

:money:

lol. I did have this sketch in the back of my mind when I made that post . I still stand by what I wrote though; back in the day they seemed to have a sense of community that the modern 'progressive' days of driving kids to school, driving to retail villages, living away from extended family, living miles away from work and work mates seems to have lost.

Perhaps with the cost of fuel and car ownership we'll move back to the days of living within walking distance of school, work, shops and will regain our communities?

A much better view of the future than the death camps and living in aircraft hangers favoured by a few on this forum

lostinrates

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

. Your OH choses to work at his current company and you choose to live in/around London. Your OH may be paid less at another company or in another city, but he might enjoy his life much more - it's the choice he has to make.

Sorry DD, thats not so. (that he coud work elsewhere) DH works in International corporate law, none of those types of firms knocking about elsewhere in England...but yes his career was his choise and thats, again, why we make the comprimises we have and I hope our comprimises are less than most people's will be taken across the broad scheme of things.

As you say, people should consider living closer to work...if they can afford it...which circles back to earlier in this discussion (and the whle house prices board)...affordability! I'm not complaining, everyone makes comprimises, but I'm pointing out living within your means isn't as simple as moving a trainstop out, for us or other people!

Dithering_Dad

lostinrates wrote: »

I'm pointing out living within your means isn't as simple as moving a trainstop out, for us or other people!

But it is, you just need to make the choice of whether you want to live to work or work to live. Your OH, I assume could work in other forms of Corporate law but chooses to work in this field, knowing that he can only do it in Central London and that this means he will have to be away from his family all week. I choose to do work in my field of expertise which means that I also have to be away from my family all week.

Both your OH and I could change our careers slightly and enjoy a better work-life balance but for one reason or another (career advancement/enjoyment, higher income, etc.) we choose not to.

For my part, my plan is to salt away as much of this higher income as I can to pay down my mortgage and reduce my outgoings to the point where a lower paid local job becomes an option. I have chosen to do this but could easily have chosen to spend this money on high living and continue working away for the rest of my career.

lostinrates

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

But it is, you just need to make the choice of whether you want to live to work or work to live. Your OH, I assume could work in other forms of Corporate law but chooses to work in this field, knowing that he can only do it in Central London and that this means he will have to be away from his family all week. I choose to do work in my field of expertise which means that I also have to be away from my family all week.

Both your OH and I could change our careers slightly and enjoy a better work-life balance but for one reason or another (career advancement/enjoyment, higher income, etc.) we choose not to.

For my part, my plan is to salt away as much of this higher income as I can to pay down my mortgage and reduce my outgoings to the point where a lower paid local job becomes an option. I have chosen to do this but could easily have chosen to spend this money on high living and continue working away for the rest of my career.

The thing is I think we are on the same page here.

I agree there are choices for people, but not for society, someone has to do those jobs and there will always be people like you and my DH who accept those comprimises....but this then goes back to the pont you made earlier about the effects on children etc etc....

The difference is, even startng a career 5 years ago property prices were more attainable, very much more so. Men/women like you and my husband nade that choice being able to stash away extra, people making that choice (like DH now in London) now CAN'T.

As I say, I'm agreeing with you in principle, but the commuting arguement etc just doesn't hold for my generation as it did for my parents, or even my older sister, and while I'm reminded frequently my other posters here that people like DH and I who save rather than buy plasma tvs are rare, we do exist and we still struggle.

ETA: I'm smiling at the thought of my DH coping in what I think of as 'real law'...you know how some people have no common sense and tweo left feet?......;)

neverdespairgirl

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

I know a little bit about you and your OH from your posts, but forgive me if I have any innaccuracies....

You both are professionals (you're a lawyer, not sure about OH)

This might have been aimed at me, and edited out?

Yes, OH and I are both barristers - I do immigration and immigration-related crime, OH does employment and land law.